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Did God create evil/devil?

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Re: Did God create evil/devil?

Post by Jewel on Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:05 pm

MarcCatholic wrote:Yon nga po Kuya Jewel. I think pareho tayo ng nasa isip e. Hindi natin masasabing ang ibibigay mo ay bahagi in general sa'yo, o hindi bahagi sa'yo. Ito'y nakadepende. Pero, ang punto po kasi paano ito ginamit sa statement. Syempre ang gusto palabasin ni Kuya Fred ay ang idea na you can't give what you don't have, not literally the candy o kung ano pa yan. Tama, hindi mo talaga maibibigay ang kotse doon sa tao kung wala ka nito, not the argument that you are composed also of machine, wheels, etc. Nakita nyo na po ang pinupunto ko? So sige ibalik natin sa main topic, malamang si God ay hindi niya ito lilikhain sapagkat siya ay pure goodness but He allowed it and of course, alam niya ito, because God can draw out greater goodness even to the greatest evils. Basahin nyo po reply ni Yidda helpful po siya about evils in morality. Thanks.

hindi pareho ang nasa isip natin marc ngunit naiintidihan ko ang punto mo, at di ako sang-ayon sa punto mo.

Ang implication kasi ng statement na "You cant give what you dont have" in the context of this discussion is that God must not have created evil otherwise God has evil in Himself because "you cant give what you dont have" ---which is a very big mistake.

God had good and evil existed as options to choose from for those whom He granted free will - but it does not mean that God has evil in himself or that evil is part of God because as I said evil is but a creation of God therefore it existed later, it did not exist infinitely with God in the past, so there was a time that evil did not exist while God has already existed beyond time. Moreover, as I repeatedly said that the creator must be different from his creation - so evil is not part of God, he is the creator of it.

yungkol naman sa sinasabi mong God merely allowed it but he did not create it is super malabo because that would imply that there is somebody other than God who is also a creator - somewhat like a counter part of God - God creates good, and the other creator creates evil -- that is polytheism marc. That is the belief of the sabians and the magians and they are polytheists.

That is almost identical with the hindu polytheistic beleif - Vishnu the creator of God and sheba, vishnu's counterpart creates evil - that is clearly polytheism, no doubt.
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Re: Did God create evil/devil?

Post by MarcCatholic on Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:38 am

Thanks for your reply kuya Jewel. Ang problema po kasi, sa amin ang evil is not really "existing" dependently (not created really) in technicality (I can't find the best term for it) kasi it only exists in perfect absence of goodness. Kumbaga, ang heat hindi kasi siya na-create e kundi ito'y nag-exist lamang dahil sa absence of cold. Ganun din ang darkness because there's no light. You agree with me that God is love right? You can't attest to the real love of God if He doesn't allow the possibility of evil. Ang nagiging misleading lang ay dahil we feel and see evil nowadays because really, it's the side effect as being the absence of goodness. "Evil is the side-effect of love. Suffering and deaths are side effects of evil." Romans 5:12. Unless you want to be a robot, humans enjoy their free-will and their choice to serve and love God.

Philosopher Alvin Plantinga writes, "An all loving, all powerful, all knowing Being could permit as much evil as He pleased without forfeiting His claim to being all loving, so long as for every evil state of affairs He permits there is an accompanying greater good".
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Re: Did God create evil/devil?

Post by Jewel on Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:21 pm

MarcCatholic wrote:Thanks for your reply kuya Jewel. Ang problema po kasi, sa amin ang evil is not really "existing" dependently (not created really) in technicality (I can't find the best term for it) kasi it only exists in perfect absence of goodness. Kumbaga, ang heat hindi kasi siya na-create e kundi ito'y nag-exist lamang dahil sa absence of cold. Ganun din ang darkness because there's no light. You agree with me that God is love right? You can't attest to the real love of God if He doesn't allow the possibility of evil. Ang nagiging misleading lang ay dahil we feel and see evil nowadays because really, it's the side effect as being the absence of goodness. "Evil is the side-effect of love. Suffering and deaths are side effects of evil." Romans 5:12. Unless you want to be a robot, humans enjoy their free-will and their choice to serve and love God.

Philosopher Alvin Plantinga writes, "An all loving, all powerful, all knowing Being could permit as much evil as He pleased without forfeiting His claim to being all loving, so long as for every evil state of affairs He permits there is an accompanying greater good".

Mas lalo pang naging malabo ngayon yan marc kung ganon hehhee

lumalabas na ang evil is uncontrolled phenomenon by God, it just existed as a natural opposition to love - Sounds atheism hehehe

BTW marc, hindi love and opposite ng evil. Ang opposite ng evil is good, at ang opposite naman ng love ay hate or something to that kind.


Ngayon, ayon sa reasoning na nakalap mo, pwede rin natin sabihin na God did not created hatred because he is love, ang problema ay God hates evil doers, as a matter of fact he will put them in hell if they wont repent - which means naka-acquire ang God ng new nature hehhehe

Sabit talaga yan marc kahit saang anggulo tingnan.

Ang tamang belief ay ganito:

There is only one creator God, he created everything but he is not part of what he created in any shape or form because the creator must be different and distinct from his creation. He created male and female, light and darkness, love and hate, good and evil, ect. Among His creations, man, is granted free will, that is the freedom of choice, do good in obedience to God, or do evil in disobedience to God. Those who do good will be loved more by God and will be rewarded in the hereafter, while those who do evil and dont wanna repent deserve God's anger and will be punished in the hereafter.

Ganon po yan ka-simple, logical, reasonable, at walang sabit. Yan ang Islamic theology dyan. Kahit walang pinag-aralan ay maiintindihan kaagad at hindi malilito.
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