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Did Allah create evil/devil?

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Did Allah create evil/devil?

Post by fredms3 on Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:04 am

Nais lang po nating maliwanagan ang mga kinapapaloobang issue tungkol sa sagot ni Jewel na: God/Allah did create evil/devil.

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Re: Did Allah create evil/devil?

Post by Jewel on Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:58 pm

fredms3 wrote:Nais lang po nating maliwanagan ang mga kinapapaloobang issue tungkol sa sagot ni Jewel na: God/Allah did create evil/devil.

Aba, mukhang seryosong seryoso na to fred ah hehehe

Di ko alam na nilipat mo pala dito ang discussion eh may nasimulan na doon sa kabilang thread, may gusto yatang iwasan na mahalungkat at ipokos na lamang ang atensyon sa Islam heheheh


anyway, kahit saan mo ililipat ang topic, same answer parin ang response ko:

Allah is the creator of everything, and everything means everything, that includes good and evil because he is the one who created the devil (Satan) - This is to test your faith in relation to the free will which he gave to you.

That is Allah, your Lord! there is no god but He, the Creator of all
things: then worship ye Him: and He hath power to dispose of all
affairs. Livestock Verse: 102

Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is the Guardian and Disposer of all affairs. The Companies Verse: 62


Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested? The Spider Verse: 2

He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;- The Kingdom Verse: 2


I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me. The Scatterers Verse: 56



Want more Quranic verses???

I told you, Islamic theology is as clear as the brightness of the sun; not like in Christianity, so confusing, vague, and illogical, i mean "mystery" hehehe
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Re: Did Allah create evil/devil?

Post by fredms3 on Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:15 pm

Di naman Jewel. Medyo nagka-interes lang ako sa sagot mo na alang clear-cut answer about God creating evil.

Sa kabila thread ay Bible ang basehan. I want naman Quran dito.

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Re: Did Allah create evil/devil?

Post by fredms3 on Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:45 pm

Btw, wala tayong iniiwasang mahalungkat sa kabilang thread. Ok lang ma-open lahat yan. And i expect the same here.

Meron bang sinabi sa Quran na me ginawa si Allah na evil during and after creation?

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Re: Did Allah create evil/devil?

Post by Jewel on Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:21 pm

Di naman Jewel. Medyo nagka-interes lang ako sa sagot mo na alang clear-cut answer about God creating evil.

Sa kabila thread ay Bible ang basehan. I want naman Quran dito.


Btw, wala tayong iniiwasang mahalungkat sa kabilang thread. Ok lang ma-open lahat yan. And i expect the same here.

Meron bang sinabi sa Quran na me ginawa si Allah na evil during and after creation?



Ah ganon ba? I think tinanong mo ako dun eh whether my answer is supported in the Quran, at sabi ko oo.

Tulad ng mga arguments ko dito sa forum, kapag sinitas ko ang mga talata ng Quran, hindi ako magko-conclude na final na yun kaagad kasi hindi Muslim kausap ko eh diba? Binibigyan ko ng door na kuwestyonin ng kausap ko ang logic ng sagot mula sa Quran.

So, in as far as the Islamic/quranic basis that God created evil, malinaw na siguro ang sinitas kong mga talata sa itaas.

Ngayon kung may logical objection/question ka, feel free to ask.

Hindi kasi ako tulad ng iba na kapag nakasulat sa biblya ay yun na yun kasi kapag hindi bible beleiver ang kausap mo, hindi final authority sa kanya ang bible diba?

So tulad ng sagot ko noon, there is no clear cut word for word text that God created evil, but we know full well that the devil (satan) who does evil is part of the creation of God, and God knew full well that satan will do evil if he will be created, yet God created him.

Here is a qur'anic injunction nearest to it:

From the evil of what He has created,(The Daybreak, Dawn
Verse: 2
)



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Re: Did Allah create evil/devil?

Post by fredms3 on Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:04 am

Ok, simulan natin dito:

I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me. The Scatterers Verse: 56
Is jinn equivalent to evil, that is satan?

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Re: Did Allah create evil/devil?

Post by fredms3 on Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:03 pm

Jewel,

I am waiting for your answer here, tnx.

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Re: Did Allah create evil/devil?

Post by fredms3 on Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:20 pm

Same here Jewel...

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Re: Did Allah create evil/devil?

Post by Jewel on Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:38 pm

fredms3 wrote:Ok, simulan natin dito:


Is jinn equivalent to evil, that is satan?

Jinns are not evil; they are of different creation but like men, they do have free will (obey or disobey). Some of them are good jinns (Muslims), and some of them bad jinns (shayateen/devils) -

Ibles, the head/leader of all the devils is from the jinnkind. Perhaps, it is equivalent to what you call as Lucifer, but in your theology, Lucifer was an angel who rebel against God - but in Islamic theology, Ibles is not an angel, he is of the jinn. The Islamic theology is very clear on this part as compared to your theology because our our quranic text is clear as well as the authentic ahadith on this topic, while the bible is vague.

So mankind and jinnkind are created to worship God alone, nevertheless God gave them free will (obey or disobey)

Next question....
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Re: Did Allah create evil/devil?

Post by fredms3 on Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:57 pm

Jewel wrote:

Jinns are not evil; they are of different creation but like men, they do have free will (obey or disobey). Some of them are good jinns (Muslims), and some of them bad jinns (shayateen/devils) -

Ibles, the head/leader of all the devils is from the jinnkind. Perhaps, it is equivalent to what you call as Lucifer, but in your theology, Lucifer was an angel who rebel against God - but in Islamic theology, Ibles is not an angel, he is of the jinn. The Islamic theology is very clear on this part as compared to your theology because our our quranic text is clear as well as the authentic ahadith on this topic, while the bible is vague.

So mankind and jinnkind are created to worship God alone, nevertheless God gave them free will (obey or disobey)

Next question....

Tnx for info.

So Ibles also disobeyed Allah as Lucifer did that's why he became satan right?



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Re: Did Allah create evil/devil?

Post by Jewel on Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:22 pm

fredms3 wrote:

Tnx for info.

So Ibles also disobeyed Allah as Lucifer did that's why he became satan right?




No, the disobedience of Ibles did not make him satan because if disobedience per se makes you satan then what would you say of Adam, he also disobeyed God, did he become satan too? I dont think so.

What made Ibles become a satan was his persistence of his evil thoughts and deeds despite knowing that it is not pleasing to God, and his knowledge that that is not what he is supposed to do.


Next question....
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Re: Did Allah create evil/devil?

Post by fredms3 on Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:07 am

Jewel wrote:


No, the disobedience of Ibles did not make him satan because if disobedience per se makes you satan then what would you say of Adam, he also disobeyed God, did he become satan too? I dont think so.

What made Ibles become a satan was his persistence of his evil thoughts and deeds despite knowing that it is not pleasing to God, and his knowledge that that is not what he is supposed to do.


Next question....

His persistence made Ibles satan?

Can we call persistent sinner satan then?

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Re: Did Allah create evil/devil?

Post by Jewel on Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:14 pm

fredms3 wrote:
His persistence made Ibles satan?

Can we call persistent sinner satan then?

I think so, if you are referring to Ibles.

he was granted free will just like us human beings but he chose to disobey God and persist in his disobedience because of his pride and jealousy toward Adam. Allah threatened him of a severe punishment if he persist in his disobedience but he chose to do so.


Next question...
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Re: Did Allah create evil/devil?

Post by fredms3 on Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:45 am

Jewel wrote:

I think so, if you are referring to Ibles.

he was granted free will just like us human beings but he chose to disobey God and persist in his disobedience because of his pride and jealousy toward Adam. Allah threatened him of a severe punishment if he persist in his disobedience but he chose to do so.


Next question...

Ok. We can say therefore that Allah created many satan? Can we find that line/verse in your Quran?

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Re: Did Allah create evil/devil?

Post by Jewel on Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:05 pm

fredms3 wrote:Ok. We can say therefore that Allah created many satan? Can we find that line/verse in your Quran?

Wrong. Allah did not create many satan or any satan for that matter. What Allah has created are jinns and human beings and he gave them free will - do good or do evil -

those who chose to do good are called servants of God, while those who chose to do evil are called satan.

Therefore, both jinns and human beings have in their groups satan. Ibles was not satan before he disobeyed remember that. Ibles was finally called satan when he chose to do evil and persists in doing it.

The Quranic reference for the creation of jinns and human beings are:

Surah 51:56, and Surah 55: 13-14


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