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Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by vril on Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:16 am

harballah wrote:

Nasagot ka na namin ni Jewel ngayon puwede ikaw naman ang sumagot sa tanong ko.


Is the bible god different from quran god? I thought you recognize prophets in the bible? So to undermine the god of the bible is undermining your god too. Is allah not yahweh who is the god of moses? Just want to clear this thing first.

But it's clear to me they are one and the same. So if you can post a verse stating the god of the bible promotes child marriage/sex, it wouldn't surprise me at all because Allah did just the same with your prophet. Both gods ( if they are different) promotes child marriage/sex. Which these gods very disturbing.

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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by Jewel on Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:44 pm

vril wrote:Sex with 9 year olds be it under marriage or not is pedophilia. Does this answer your question?

Evading the question by changing the implication hehehe

Is having sex with your legal wife who has attained the age
of puberty a pedophilia?

Yes or No and why?
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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by harballah on Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:50 pm

vril wrote:
Is the bible god different from quran god? I thought you recognize prophets in the bible? So to undermine the god of the bible is undermining your god too. Is allah not yahweh who is the god of moses? Just want to clear this thing first.

Brad hindi po ako naniniwala sa naitala sa pinaghahawakan ninyong bibliya na uutusan ng Diyos na patayin ang inosenteng mga bata na hindi na birhen at ang birhen ay ibibigay sa kanila para gawing asawa.


Numbers 31:


17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.






vril wrote:
But it's clear to me they are one and the same. So if you can post a verse stating the god of the bible promotes child marriage/sex, it wouldn't surprise me at all because Allah did just the same with your prophet. Both gods ( if they are different) promotes child marriage/sex. Which these gods very disturbing.



Pero hindi mo pa ako sinasagot brad, ikaw ba ay naniniwala na mismong bibliya mo pala ay nag-uutos pala nito pero kinokontra mo ang pag-aasawa ng propheta kay Ayesha (radiyallah anha).



Anyway, itataas ko lang itong katanungan ni kapatid na jewel na hindi mo sinasagot.





Jewel wrote:
Evading the question by changing the implication hehehe

Is having sex with your legal wife who has attained the age
of puberty a pedophilia?

Yes or No and why?

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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by vril on Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:01 am

harballah wrote:

Brad hindi po ako naniniwala sa naitala sa pinaghahawakan ninyong bibliya na uutusan ng Diyos na patayin ang inosenteng mga bata na hindi na birhen at ang birhen ay ibibigay sa kanila para gawing asawa.


Numbers 31:


17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.










Pero hindi mo pa ako sinasagot brad, ikaw ba ay naniniwala na mismong bibliya mo pala ay nag-uutos pala nito pero kinokontra mo ang pag-aasawa ng propheta kay Ayesha (radiyallah anha).



Anyway, itataas ko lang itong katanungan ni kapatid na jewel na hindi mo sinasagot.






Where did you get the idea that I subscribe to the bible?...lolx lol! And the topic was about marriage/sex to children. I do not know why you inserted killing of babies?

What we are questioning is Mohammed's marriage to a 6 year old child and having sex with her at the age of 9.

I have answered Jewel's question but he doesn;t seem to accept my answer. I'm not sure why.

My point is Mohammed's marriage/sex to a child is immoral and Muslim seem not to catch this and tries to justify his actions. why? Because he is your prophet. All the things he wanted to do is justified by Allah. Apart form his marriage/sex to a child, he is allowed to have multiple wives more than 4 which is allowed by your religion. I believe he has temporary wives too. How many wives does Mohammed had during his lifetime?


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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by Jewel on Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:17 am

vril wrote:

I have answered Jewel's question but he doesn;t seem to accept my answer. I'm not sure why.

My point is Mohammed's marriage/sex to a child is immoral and Muslim seem not to catch this and tries to justify his actions. why? Because he is your prophet. All the things he wanted to do is justified by Allah. Apart form his marriage/sex to a child, he is allowed to have multiple wives more than 4 which is allowed by your religion. I believe he has temporary wives too. How many wives does Mohammed had during his lifetime?


Getting funny here

After things had been clarified (age or puberty) still you persisted about age hehehhe

Anyway, here is my 2nd challenge to you because you said that Prophet Muhammad's marriage to Aisha is immoral, as well as his polygamous marriages;

Give me any reference from any scripture of the major religions of the world that it is immoral - i would like to know
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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by vril on Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:11 pm

Jewel wrote:

Getting funny here

After things had been clarified (age or puberty) still you persisted about age hehehhe

Anyway, here is my 2nd challenge to you because you said that Prophet Muhammad's marriage to Aisha is immoral, as well as his polygamous marriages;

Give me any reference from any scripture of the major religions of the world that it is immoral - i would like to know

Hi Jewel,

I'm sorry. You and harballah seem to think I susbcribe to a religion. I don't. So i cannot give you any reference from scriptures. But i will not be surprise if other religions will subscribe to child marriage/sex. That's one of the problem I'm seeing with religion. Complete disregard for basic child rights, exploitation, abuse, and murder (haraballah just posted one from the bible).

But if you're interested in knowing international rights due to a child, google is the easiest. Child marriage/sex is considered a violation of the basic human right of child. If you don't agree then something is definitely wrong with your view of morality. Let me ask you again, would you allow your 6 year old daughter to be married to a 50 year old man? I'm hoping you would not.

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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by vril on Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:52 pm

Muslims do not see anything wrong with Mohammed marrying a 6 year old child. As much as I would like to understand this act by Mohammed I can't seem to grasp this thought.

It's unthinkable in our present times but I'm not sure why god ( if he is real) had allowed it and did not bother to think what moral implications this may bring to his prophet after 1400 years. But the most important point I want to question is god's insensitivity to children. He could have set the highest moral standards by not allowing such marriage to happen. Scriptures have always focused on the how god declared what is right and what is wrong but the it failed miserably in protecting the rights of the child. I dont think any scriptures have even bothered to say anything about child rights. As such, children are always victims. Victims of rape, abuse, exploitation, deprivation of basic needs, discrimination and even murder.

Hi jewel/harballah, will it be ok to move on and ask another question?

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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by Jewel on Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:02 pm

vril wrote:

Hi Jewel,

I'm sorry. You and harballah seem to think I susbcribe to a religion. I don't. So i cannot give you any reference from scriptures. But i will not be surprise if other religions will subscribe to child marriage/sex. That's one of the problem I'm seeing with religion. Complete disregard for basic child rights, exploitation, abuse, and murder (haraballah just posted one from the bible).

I am fully aware that you are an atheist bro vril because we already had a conversation at atheism board, remember?

I believe you are right about harballah; he seemed to be unaware that you are an atheist because he was asking you about your god.


But if you're interested in knowing international rights due to a child, google is the easiest. Child marriage/sex is considered a violation of the basic human right of child. If you don't agree then something is definitely wrong with your view of morality. Let me ask you again, would you allow your 6 year old daughter to be married to a 50 year old man? I'm hoping you would not.

The reason why I asked you of scriptural basis of your alleged immorality marriage of prophet Muhammad pbuh is because of the presumption that religious scriptures are the sources of objective morality that we know today. This international right of children that you are talking about are very recent and cant apply to past events because the effect of any human legislated law is always prospective and not retrospective unless it favors to the subject - are you aware of that legal principle? that's political science 101.

Moreover, that international rights of children that you are talking about cant be a basis for judging here because it is not objective. Imagine, the Muslim population alone is more than 1.3 billion plus billions of christian and hindus and Jews doenst have in their respective scriptures that marrying a girl who has attained puberty is immoral.

As a matter of fact, that question/challenge for you is a rhetorical one because I know for sure that you'll never find any basis from any religious scripture of any major religions of the world - which means that your accusation is baseless.

Thanks
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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by harballah on Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:12 pm

vril wrote:Where did you get the idea that I subscribe to the bible?...lolx And the topic was about marriage/sex to children. I do not know why you inserted killing of babies?

Sa madaling salita pala ay walang katuturan ang mga tanong mo kasi kahit anong paliwanag namin ay hindi ka naman tumatanggap at kapag naglatag kami sa bibliya ay sasabihin mo na hindi ka naman naniniwala sa bibliya, so tama nga ang assumption ni whitejewel na isa kang Atheist.

Anyway, gusto ko lang pala ulit ilatag iyong nabanggit mo sa pulang iyan.

Nasa verse 18 po iyong pagpayag ng Diyos sa bibliya na gamitin iyong mga batang babae.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves

Para po ito sa mga mambabasang kristiyano, baka kasi isipin nila na tama ka na walang pagsang-ayon ang Diyos sa bibliya na gumalaw ng bata, sa Islam kasi ay kapag nasa puberty stage na ay puwede ng mag-asawa, takenote "asawa" hindi po parausan.

Vril, bahala na po si kapatid na whitejewel sa inyo kasi mas magaling iyan pagdating sa atheist, kapag may katanungan kayo about doktorina at aral namin ay sasagot po ako, kaya lang kung haka-haka lang about Ayesha (radiyallah anha), ipagpaumanhin mo kasi ayaw kung makasakit ng damdamin ng tao kapag may masabi akong hindi mo magustuhan.

Thanks and peace!

Harballah

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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by Jewel on Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:17 pm

vril wrote:Muslims do not see anything wrong with Mohammed marrying a 6 year old child. As much as I would like to understand this act by Mohammed I can't seem to grasp this thought.

It is because you are interpreting a more than a century tradition in the light of modern way of life. That is why I said to you before that you should interpret past event in the light of their historical context, otherwise you'll end up with an erroneous conclusion because it is out of context.

That's the reason why i asked you to find a scriptural basis for its immorality because old scriptures which are written thousands of years before the Quran do not say it is immoral to marry a girl who has attained the age of puberty. Moreover, I also explained very clearly that the purpose of that marriage was not about sex but about the preservation of the prophetic rulings on women which in fact did materialized because almost all Islamic rulings about women are based on the narration of Aisha r.a. - without her, islamic rulings on women would have been based on people's conjectures and opinion.

It's unthinkable in our present times but I'm not sure why god ( if he is real) had allowed it and did not bother to think what moral implications this may bring to his prophet after 1400 years. But the most important point I want to question is god's insensitivity to children. He could have set the highest moral standards by not allowing such marriage to happen. Scriptures have always focused on the how god declared what is right and what is wrong but the it failed miserably in protecting the rights of the child. I dont think any scriptures have even bothered to say anything about child rights. As such, children are always victims. Victims of rape, abuse, exploitation, deprivation of basic needs, discrimination and even murder.

Again, understand the historical context of the issue and see the objective of that marriage as discussed above - dont interpret stuff out of context because it wont help you at all.

Hi jewel/harballah, will it be ok to move on and ask another question?

Go ahead, fire your questions, you are very much welcome bro.


Thanks
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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by vril on Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:45 pm

First, I wanna commend you and Harballah for not being antagonistic on your replies. At some point i was so passionate about the subject i wanted to judge both of you and the Islamic world promoters of pedophilia. You proved me wrong by the way you replied to my queries.

To my next question, is it true that a muslim woman needs 4 witnesses to prove that she was raped? Her own testimony holds no weight in Sharia Law?

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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by Jewel on Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:30 pm

vril wrote:First, I wanna commend you and Harballah for not being antagonistic on your replies. At some point i was so passionate about the subject i wanted to judge both of you and the Islamic world promoters of pedophilia. You proved me wrong by the way you replied to my queries.

To my next question, is it true that a muslim woman needs 4 witnesses to prove that she was raped? Her own testimony holds no weight in Sharia Law?

It depends:

If she has no reliable evidence to present that she was raped but mere verbal accusation, then yes, she has to bring 4 witnesses who are known to be good people and not liars.

However, if she has a reliable evidence/s that she was raped then the 4 witnesses is not necessary because what is being ascertained is whether or not her allegation is true because not all crimes are witnessed 4. Nowadays, with the help of modern tech, it is easy to examine evidences.

The principle is the same to all criminal justice system, the accused is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt.


Thanks
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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by vril on Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:14 am

Jewel wrote:

It depends:

If she has no reliable evidence to present that she was raped but mere verbal accusation, then yes, she has to bring 4 witnesses who are known to be good people and not liars.

However, if she has a reliable evidence/s that she was raped then the 4 witnesses is not necessary because what is being ascertained is whether or not her allegation is true because not all crimes are witnessed 4. Nowadays, with the help of modern tech, it is easy to examine evidences.

The principle is the same to all criminal justice system, the accused is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt.


Thanks

Thanks. What if nobody saw she was raped but medical evidences proved she was, will this be accepted by your court?

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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by Jewel on Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:34 pm

vril wrote:Thanks. What if nobody saw she was raped but medical evidences proved she was, will this be accepted by your court?


of course yes my dear. and of course she'll not only prove that she was raped but also the identity of the rapist and the consistency of her statements and the evidence presented.
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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by vril on Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:12 am

Jewel wrote:

of course yes my dear. and of course she'll not only prove that she was raped but also the identity of the rapist and the consistency of her statements and the evidence presented.

Thanks Jewel!


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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by vril on Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:14 am

What does Islam say about Apostasy? Is it true that apostates are worsts than infidels and they deserve to die? Does Allah commands apostates be killed?

TIA

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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by Jewel on Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:26 pm

vril wrote:What does Islam say about Apostasy? Is it true that apostates are worsts than infidels and they deserve to die? Does Allah commands apostates be killed?

TIA

Im not sure whether your concept of apostasy is the same with our "murtad" commonly translated as apostates, infidels ect.

You need to take note that Islam is both worldly and spiritual way of life. In as far as the spiritual aspect, then there is no compulsion in it, one is free to choose what he believes to be the correct religion. However, in as far as the worldly or governmental aspect, if one commits a crime of being murtad such as embracing Islam and leaving it later on in order create trouble within the muslim community, the it is considered as treason, incitement to war, ect; then the offender is given three chances to stop his wrong doing, and repent - if he persist, then the legitimate Islamic government may order for his execution in order to stop the hostility - this is based on the principle of general welfare in which the right on an individual is suppressed in order to maintain peace and order with the community as a whole.

It should be noted also that the legitimate government only has the right to implement such action and not merely a group or groups of individuals because the case must be brought first to the legitimate Islamic court.


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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by vril on Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:35 am

Jewel wrote:

Im not sure whether your concept of apostasy is the same with our "murtad" commonly translated as apostates, infidels ect.

You need to take note that Islam is both worldly and spiritual way of life. In as far as the spiritual aspect, then there is no compulsion in it, one is free to choose what he believes to be the correct religion. However, in as far as the worldly or governmental aspect, if one commits a crime of being murtad such as embracing Islam and leaving it later on in order create trouble within the muslim community, the it is considered as treason, incitement to war, ect; then the offender is given three chances to stop his wrong doing, and repent - if he persist, then the legitimate Islamic government may order for his execution in order to stop the hostility - this is based on the principle of general welfare in which the right on an individual is suppressed in order to maintain peace and order with the community as a whole.

It should be noted also that the legitimate government only has the right to implement such action and not merely a group or groups of individuals because the case must be brought first to the legitimate Islamic court.


Thanks

So if a muslim converts to a christian/bhuddist/taoist/hindu or even atheist, he is not guilty of murtad unless he attacks Islam? Is this correct?

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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by Jewel on Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:27 pm

vril wrote:So if a muslim converts to a christian/bhuddist/taoist/hindu or even atheist, he is not guilty of murtad unless he attacks Islam? Is this correct?

By faith he is still a murtad but in as far as the legal punishment for a murtad cant be applied to him if there is no attack/hostility towards Islam. Dr. Bilal Philips admitted that there are Arabs who converted to other faiths due to monetary reasons but they are free.

You have to make a distinction tho between Islamic law and family pressure. The family of that person who converted to another faith from Islam may put pressure on him. But this is common to all because there are many Former Christians which I know to be maltreated by their families sumply because they reverted to Islam. Further, I encountered many Christians in my public dialogues who confessed to me personally that they are convinced that Islam is the true religion but they cant make any commitment because of the pressure of their families.

The point is that the families of a person may show some pressure if he converts to another faith but the religion itself did not warrant such act. God knows best.


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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by RavlaM on Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:42 pm

Is allah the moon god?
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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by RavlaM on Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:45 pm

Is the kaaba the home of many deities including the moon gods?

Why do you have to go on pilgrimage in the kaaba?

Why do you have to pray facing the kaaba?
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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by Jewel on Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:43 pm

RavlaM wrote:Is allah the moon god?

No.

research more, google it malvar
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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by Jewel on Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:44 pm

RavlaM wrote:Is the kaaba the home of many deities including the moon gods?

Why do you have to go on pilgrimage in the kaaba?

Why do you have to pray facing the kaaba?

same answer;

No.

research more, google it malvar
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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by harballah on Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:20 pm

Salam bro, pinagtitiyagaan mo rin pala iyang tanong ni Malvar este ravlam pala.

Ako ini-ignored ko lang kasi alam na niya ang sagot ko niyan doon sa ISLAM BOARD sa OLD BARM, ito kasing thread ay nirereserba lang doon sa mga taong gustong malaman ang Islam, hindi ito discussion board kundi sagot sa mga taong matinong magtanong, kaya nga ITIS "Isang tanong isang sagot">>>>>

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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

Post by Jewel on Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:19 pm

harballah wrote:Salam bro, pinagtitiyagaan mo rin pala iyang tanong ni Malvar este ravlam pala.

Ako ini-ignored ko lang kasi alam na niya ang sagot ko niyan doon sa ISLAM BOARD sa OLD BARM, ito kasing thread ay nirereserba lang doon sa mga taong gustong malaman ang Islam, hindi ito discussion board kundi sagot sa mga taong matinong magtanong, kaya nga ITIS "Isang tanong isang sagot">>>>>

oo nga eh, para akong nagtatrabaho sa mental hospital nito, parang may personality disorder itong pasyente natin.

injectionan mo nga ng anti-psychotic dyan hehehe
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Re: Isang Tanong Isang Sagot (ITIS)...

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