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Catholic Theology Q & A

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Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Yidda on Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:36 pm

Catholic Theology Q & A
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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by fredms3 on Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:18 pm



CANON 4. If anyone maintains that God awaits our will to be cleansed from sin, but does not confess that even our will to be cleansed comes to us through the infusion and working of the Holy Spirit, he resists the Holy Spirit himself who says through Solomon, "The will is prepared by the Lord" (Prov. 8:35, LXX), and the salutary word of the Apostle, "For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).

CANON 6. If anyone says that God has mercy upon us when, apart from his grace, we believe, will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock, but does not confess that it is by the infusion and inspiration of the Holy Spirit within us that we have the faith, the will, or the strength to do all these things as we ought; or if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, "What have you that you did not receive?" (1 Cor. 4:7), and, "But by the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Cor. 15:10).

Naku sis favorite line ni Pilo to prove total shut-out of the freewill to have the power to choose from good and evil.



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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Yidda on Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:54 pm

fredms3 wrote:<blockquote>
<blockquote>
CANON 4. If anyone maintains that God awaits our will to be cleansed from sin, but does not confess that even our will to be cleansed comes to us through the infusion and working of the Holy Spirit, he resists the Holy Spirit himself who says through Solomon, "The will is prepared by the Lord" (Prov. 8:35, LXX), and the salutary word of the Apostle, "For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).

CANON 6. If anyone says that God has mercy upon us when, apart from his grace, we believe, will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock, but does not confess that it is by the infusion and inspiration of the Holy Spirit within us that we have the faith, the will, or the strength to do all these things as we ought; or if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, "What have you that you did not receive?" (1 Cor. 4:7), and, "But by the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Cor. 15:10).

Naku sis favorite line ni Pilo to prove total shut-out of the freewill to have the power to choose from good and evil.
</blockquote></blockquote>

I believe/(my speculation) these people are former calvinist, and are not Catholic at all, perhaps evangelicals.

The condemnation of total depravity, and of related false doctrines found among the Protestant Reformers, was given at Trent with attached anathemas:

CANON IV. If any one saith, that man's free will moved and excited by God, by assenting to God exciting and calling, nowise co-operates towards disposing and preparing itself for obtaining the grace of Justification; that it cannot refuse its consent, if it would, but that, as something inanimate, it does nothing whatever and is merely passive; let him be anathema.

Semi calvinist(Akin's) view on free will partially accepts this condemned error. For when the ideas of predestination and free will seem to be in conflict, Akin is unable to resolve the conflict as he ought to, by incorporating free will into predestination. As a result, he in effect denies the true freedom of the will when it comes to eternal salvation. For if the person is not predestined, Akin thinks free will is unable to cooperate
with justification to the extent of reaching eternal salvation. But if the person is predestined to Heaven, Akin similarly does not allow the free will to be truly free; the person must choose, in the end, the path of salvation.

CANON V. If any one saith, that, since Adam's sin, the free will of man is lost and extinguished; or, that it is a thing with only a name, yea a name without a reality, a figment, in fine, introduced into the Church by Satan; let him be anathema.

Here Trent specifically and thoroughly refutes the doctrine of total depravity. And yet Akin's article actually tells the Catholic reader that he is free to hold to the idea of total depravity: "What would a Catholic think of this teaching? While he would not use the term 'total depravity' to describe the doctrine, he would actually agree with it." This assertion is contradicted by the Canons of the Council of Trent, and is dangerous to the souls of the faithful.

CANON VI. If any one saith, that it is not in man's power to make his ways evil, but that the works that are evil God worketh as well as those that are good, not permissively only, but properly, and of Himself, in such wise that the treason of Judas is no less His own proper work than the vocation of Paul; let him be anathema.

The above Canon succinctly refutes one of the errors in Akin's article. The correct Catholic teaching is that the evil ways of man, which lead to eternal condemnation in Hell, occur because God makes free will truly free by His prevenient grace, and because God permits even the free choices, in response to subsequent grace, that lead to Hell. It is because we have the gift of grace from God that we may freely choose, by the way we live, Heaven or Hell. But Akin expresses a view that is in effect the same as the above-condemned error: those who are not predestined to Heaven, because of this omission by God and not because of free will, are unable to make their way of life good unto eternal salvation; and those who are predestined to Heaven, because of this choice of God, do not have it in their power to make their ways evil unto eternal condemnation. Free will is, in the end, not free in Akin's description, because his concept of predestination is not based on the human will made truly free by prevenient grace.

more on this will be on the thread Theology of Salvation. after the Trent versus Total Depravity , I will go to
Unconditional Election perhaps this one is the most favorite of the evangelical semi calvinist.
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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Jewel on Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:05 pm

Q - Are scriptural issues part of Catholic theology?

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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Yidda on Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:47 pm

Yes Jewel. but if the specific issue requires a long discussion it is much better if it will be discuss on a separate thread.



The teachings of the Church are often said to be on two subjects: faith and morals. I would categorize the teachings of the Church into three main divisions: faith, morals, salvation.

This Q & A covers all the basic principles of the moral teachings of the Church.

On Salvation I have a specific thread for each subject like the thread "GRAC
E"
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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Jewel on Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:41 am

Yidda wrote:Yes Jewel. but if the specific issue requires a long discussion it is much better if it will be discuss on a separate thread.



The teachings of the Church are often said to be on two subjects: faith and morals. I would categorize the teachings of the Church into three main divisions: faith, morals, salvation.

This Q & A covers all the basic principles of the moral teachings of the Church.

On Salvation I have a specific thread for each subject like the thread "GRAC
E"

I see. I believe that the three are interconnected. Anyway, let's start with faith.

Let us talk about it's basis, the bible - You as a catholic, what made you believe that the basis of your faith is free from doubt and error, or do you believe that the bible is inerrant word of God?


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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Yidda on Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:34 pm

Jewel wrote:

I see. I believe that the three are interconnected. Anyway, let's start with faith.

Let us talk about it's basis, the bible - You as a catholic, what made you believe that the basis of your faith is free from doubt and error,
As i have said before in Catholiscism QandA the truth is kept integral only in the Catholic Church. Grounded on the column of Apostles, the Catholic Church has spread itself to the extremities of the Earth. And the apostolic catholic Christian faith reached up our dear land. This is how the construction of God was started, by work of those sent by God, by the continuers of the Apostles. The Church is the sacrament of salvation for us all, as Our Lord Jesus Christ, has given it to Peter saying: "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven". Therefore, the truth is kept in its entirety only in the Catholic Church.
Jewel wrote:
or do you believe that the bible is inerrant word of God?
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It is the infallible teaching of the Magisterium that Sacred Scripture is entirely inspired and entirely inerrant. The faithful are required to adhere to this teaching with the full assent of faith, that is, with a divine and catholic faith.

Pope St. Clement I: "Look carefully into the Scriptures, which are the true utterances of the Holy Spirit. Observe that nothing of an unjust or counterfeit character is written in them." (Letter to the Corinthians, chap. 45).

Pope Leo XIII: "But it is absolutely wrong and forbidden, either to narrow inspiration to certain parts only of Holy Scripture, or to admit that the sacred writer has erred…. For all the books which the Church receives as sacred and canonical, are written wholly and entirely, with all their parts, at the dictation of the Holy Spirit; and so far is it from being possible that any error can co-exist with inspiration, that inspiration not only is essentially incompatible with error, but excludes and rejects it as absolutely and necessarily as it is impossible that God Himself, the supreme Truth, can utter that which is not true. This is the ancient and unchanging faith of the Church, solemnly defined in the Councils of Florence and of Trent, and finally confirmed and more expressly formulated by the Council of the Vatican." (Providentissimus Deus, n. 20).

Pope St. Pius X condemned the idea that "Divine inspiration does not extend to all of Sacred Scriptures so that it renders its parts, each and every one, free from every error." (Lamentabili Sane, 'Syllabus of Errors,' n. 11).

Pope Benedict XV: "St. Jerome's teaching on this point serves to confirm and illustrate what our predecessor of happy memory, Leo XIII, declared to be the ancient and traditional belief of the Church touching the absolute immunity of Scripture from error: So far is it from being the case that error can be compatible with inspiration, that, on the contrary, it not only of its very nature precludes the presence of error, but as necessarily excludes it and forbids it as God, the Supreme Truth, necessarily cannot be the Author of error…. But although these words of our predecessor leave no room for doubt or dispute, it grieves us to find that not only men outside, but even children of the Catholic Church -- nay, what is a peculiar sorrow to us, even clerics and professors of sacred learning -- who in their own conceit either openly repudiate or at least attack in secret the Church's teaching on this point…. Divine inspiration extends to every part of the Bible without the slightest exception, and that no error can occur in the inspired text…." (Spiritus Paraclitus, n. 16, 18, 21).

Pope Pius XII: "they put forward again the opinion, already often condemned, which asserts that immunity from error extends only to those parts of the Bible that treat of God or of moral and religious matters." (Humani Generis, n. 22).

Second Vatican Council: "everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit…." (Dei Verbum, n. 11).
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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Jewel on Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:04 pm

Yidda wrote:
As i have said before in Catholiscism QandA the truth is kept integral only in the Catholic Church. Grounded on the column of Apostles, the Catholic Church has spread itself to the extremities of the Earth. And the apostolic catholic Christian faith reached up our dear land. This is how the construction of God was started, by work of those sent by God, by the continuers of the Apostles. The Church is the sacrament of salvation for us all, as Our Lord Jesus Christ, has given it to Peter saying: "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven". Therefore, the truth is kept in its entirety only in the Catholic Church.

What about how it spread in our dear land?? Wasnt it through force and violence? Hmmm I remember magellan and lapu-lapu story.

anyway, that's not my concern in my question.







In short, it has been the teaching of the church that the bible is inerrant because it is the word of God, and that people believed on that teaching because logically speaking, God doesnt err therefore his word must be free of any error.


But what about if there are errors in the so-called word of God, say the bible, would you still have faith in it?


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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Yidda on Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:47 am

Jewel wrote:

What about how it spread in our dear land?? Wasnt it through force and violence? Hmmm I remember magellan and lapu-lapu story.
I don't think so.
It is not by accident that we are the only Christian nation in Asia. We are meant to be the bridge between the Christian West and the non-Christian East. We are a very important and unique nation in the world because God made us to be a gift of faith…This means that God likes to do an important mission with us.(Phil history -Zaide)

Jewel wrote:
anyway, that's not my concern in my question.

In short, it has been the teaching of the church that the bible is inerrant because it is the word of God, and that people believed on that teaching because logically speaking, God doesnt err therefore his word must be free of any error.

But what about if there are errors in the so-called word of God, say the bible, would you still have faith in it?

The human authors of the Bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit in such a way that the inspired text contains all those things and only those things that God wills. Therefore, everything asserted by any and all verses of the Bible as true must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, infallibly.

The Bible is without flaw, omission, or imperfection. To have a flaw is to have something that one ought not to have. There are no false assertions in the Bible. An omission is something lacking that ought to be present. The Bible contains everything that God has wisely willed that it should contain, so as to be effective in guiding us to
salvation. An imperfection is when something that ought to be present is present, but in a lesser form and not entirely as it ought to be. The Bible contains no imperfect assertions of truth, as if a truth were expressed, but in a flawed way that needed to be corrected by human reason. The Bible is three times perfect and entirely perfect, without flaw, omission, or imperfection, a reflection of its one true author, the Most Holy Trinity.
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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Jewel on Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:23 pm

Yidda wrote:The human authors of the Bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit in such a way that the inspired text contains all those things and only those things that God wills. Therefore, everything asserted by any and all verses of the Bible as true must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, infallibly.

The Bible is without flaw, omission, or imperfection. To have a flaw is to have something that one ought not to have. There are no false assertions in the Bible. An omission is something lacking that ought to be present. The Bible contains everything that God has wisely willed that it should contain, so as to be effective in guiding us to
salvation. An imperfection is when something that ought to be present is present, but in a lesser form and not entirely as it ought to be. The Bible contains no imperfect assertions of truth, as if a truth were expressed, but in a flawed way that needed to be corrected by human reason. The Bible is three times perfect and entirely perfect, without flaw, omission, or imperfection, a reflection of its one true author, the Most Holy Trinity.

Yeah, that is exactly what I said in my last comment. The word of God must be free of error because God is free from error.

With regards to the bible as you said, it is supposed to be perfect because it is the word of God as you believe it to be, and that though the authors are humans, the holy spirit, which is God in your theology, inspired those human authors and therefore the perfect nature of the holy spirit assures the perfection of the scripture.

But my question, which I think you did not answer directly, was if let's say despite the presumption of perfection, we find clear error or inconsistencies in the bible, would you still consider it as sacred scripture, yes or no?


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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Yidda on Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:07 pm

Jewel wrote:

Yeah, that is exactly what I said in my last comment. The word of God must be free of error because God is free from error.

With regards to the bible as you said, it is supposed to be perfect because it is the word of God as you believe it to be, and that though the authors are humans, the holy spirit, which is God in your theology, inspired those human authors and therefore the perfect nature of the holy spirit assures the perfection of the scripture.

But my question, which I think you did not answer directly, was if let's say despite the presumption of perfection, we find clear error or inconsistencies in the bible, would you still consider it as sacred scripture, yes or no?


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I do not understand your question or I cannot call it valid. as I have said The Bible is Infallible so there is no way by which it would become fallible, as you have said:"The word of God must be free of error because God is free from error."
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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Jewel on Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:01 pm

Yidda wrote:I do not understand your question or I cannot call it valid. as I have said The Bible is Infallible so there is no way by which it would become fallible, as you have said:"The word of God must be free of error because God is free from error."

That is exactly my point Yids; You believe the bible to be infallible, but that is your belief and claim as a bible believer - but that does NOT guarantee us that the bible is really infallible because not every belief and every claim is true, right?

Just like me, I believe that the Quran is 100% word of God and infallible, but that doesnt mean TO YOU that my claim/belief about the Quran is true, otherwise you will become a Muslim, correct?

So the question is, if you are shown errors in the bible, the bible that you have right now, and there is no way to clear them out, would you still believe that it is the word of God, yes or no?
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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Yidda on Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:52 pm

Jewel wrote:

That is exactly my point Yids; You believe the bible to be infallible, but that is your belief and claim as a bible believer - but that does NOT guarantee us that the bible is really infallible because not every belief and every claim is true, right?

Just like me, I believe that the Quran is 100% word of God and infallible, but that doesnt mean TO YOU that my claim/belief about the Quran is true, otherwise you will become a Muslim, correct?

So the question is, if you are shown errors in the bible, the bible that you have right now, and there is no way to clear them out, would you still believe that it is the word of God, yes or no?

Christ himself taught that Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35).

This means not only that Scripture cannot be false, but also that it cannot be null and void, nor useless, nor no longer valid, nor irrelevant to modern society, nor of merely historical relevance, nor a mere reflection of past social and cultural beliefs.

If any interpretation of any verse in the Bible has the effect of making that verse null and void, then that interpretation is null and void, not Scripture.
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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by MarcCatholic on Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:53 am

Maybe Yidda Jewel is talking about the inconsistencies of the bible and he mentioned some of them during his debate with "L" in the old BARM. So kuya Jewel, ask her directly nalang para masagot na ni Ate Yidda. Very Happy
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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by RavlaM on Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:57 am

MarcCatholic wrote:Maybe Yidda Jewel is talking about the inconsistencies of the bible and he mentioned some of them during his debate with "L" in the old BARM. So kuya Jewel, ask her directly nalang para masagot na ni Ate Yidda. Very Happy

Huh, Look who's talking about inconsistencies. I would like to remind jewel that the quran is a basket full of inconsistencies.


Last edited by RavlaM on Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Jewel on Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:01 am

MarcCatholic wrote:Maybe Yidda Jewel is talking about the inconsistencies of the bible and he mentioned some of them during his debate with "L" in the old BARM. So kuya Jewel, ask her directly nalang para masagot na ni Ate Yidda. Very Happy

I have to ask her first marc kasi marami na akong naka dialogue sa net at in person sa pinas, no big deal sa kanila na may errors at inconsistencies ang bible, leave the errors nalang daw at get/use the correct part.

So pointless lang kung magbibigay ako ng errors in the bible kung no big deal lang din ito kay yids lalo na di nya matatanggap na may errors and pinapaniwalaan nyang infallible book diba?

Ang point ko kasi dyan is not to prove that the bible contains errors; ang point ko ay yung faith ni yidda kung ito ba ay magbabago kung malalaman nya na may errors ang bible nya.


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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Yidda on Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:00 pm

MarcCatholic wrote:Maybe Yidda Jewel is talking about the inconsistencies of the bible and he mentioned some of them during his debate with "L" in the old BARM. So kuya Jewel, ask her directly nalang para masagot na ni Ate Yidda. Very Happy

The Magisterium has taught the dogma of the complete inerrancy of Sacred Scripture by solemn definition of Ecumenical Councils, and solemn definitions of the Pope, and by the universal Magisterium.
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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Yidda on Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:04 pm

[Matthew]
{5:17} "Do not think that I have come to loosen the law or the prophets. I have not come to loosen, but to fulfill.
{5:18} Amen I say to you, certainly, until heaven and earth pass away, not one iota, not one dot shall pass away from the law, until all is done.
{5:19} Therefore, whoever will have loosened one of the least of these commandments, and have taught men so, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever will have done and taught these, such a one shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Not one iota or dot can pass away from the law and the prophets, that is, from Sacred Scripture, because all of Scripture is inspired and inerrant. If it were not, then much more than an iota or a dot could pass away from it, until all is fulfilled.

[John]
{10:35} ... Scripture cannot be broken

If Scripture contains any falsehoods on any subject, then it is broken; but Christ Himself said that Scripture cannot be broken, that is, Scripture cannot be wrong or false or incorrect, or in any way broken as pertains to truth.

[2 Timothy]
{3:16} All Scripture, having been divinely inspired, is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in justice,
{3:17} so that the man of God may be perfect, having been trained for every good work.

All Scripture is inspired, therefore, all Scripture is inerrant. If there were any errors in Scripture on any subject, then all of Scripture would not be useful for teaching and reproof and correction and instruction. If Scripture contains errors that need to be corrected, then Scripture would not be useful for correction.
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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by MarcCatholic on Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:20 pm

Ate Yidda, ang point po kasi si Jewel hindi siya naniniwala na pefect ang bible. Wala po siyang pakialam kung ano man po ang pagdedefend sa atin about Bible to be inerrant. Kahit mag cite po kayo ng mga verses walang dating sa kanya yon kasi hindi siya naniniwala dito o kaya sabihin mo na ito'y sa magisterium dahil hindi naman po siya bilib dito. As Christians naniniwala po tayo na perpekto ito. So suggest ko lang po na ilatag na ni Kuya Jewel yong halimbawa na hindi consistent sa bible (na malamang ay out of awareness ito). Alam ko yon ang gusto palabasin niya kasi almost every thread na andun siya nababanggit niya ito e. Salamat.
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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Jewel on Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:02 am

MarcCatholic wrote:Ate Yidda, ang point po kasi si Jewel hindi siya naniniwala na pefect ang bible. Wala po siyang pakialam kung ano man po ang pagdedefend sa atin about Bible to be inerrant. Kahit mag cite po kayo ng mga verses walang dating sa kanya yon kasi hindi siya naniniwala dito o kaya sabihin mo na ito'y sa magisterium dahil hindi naman po siya bilib dito. As Christians naniniwala po tayo na perpekto ito. So suggest ko lang po na ilatag na ni Kuya Jewel yong halimbawa na hindi consistent sa bible (na malamang ay out of awareness ito). Alam ko yon ang gusto palabasin niya kasi almost every thread na andun siya nababanggit niya ito e. Salamat.

Hindi naman ganon ka brutal marc heheheh

Ang point ko lang naman ay alamin kay yidda kung magbabago ba ang faith nya kung malalaman nya na hindi pala inerrant ang bible na pinaniniwalaan nyang infallible.

Para sakin kasi, infallible ang Quran kasi it is a verbatim word of God NGUNIT kung may maipakitang genuine na error, ay mawawalan na ako ng faith sa Quran at sa Islam kasi sabit ng foundation eh.

Itanong mo lang sa kanya na "SUPPOSED" may errors nga ang bible, same parin ba ang faith nya or ma-diminish/decrease? yun lang po; hindi na kelangan ilatag pa dito ang errors ng bible kasi hindi naman about scriptures ang thread na to kundi simple Q&A lang. Nasa kanya na yun kung gusto nya ng example, i'll give her some of them if she wants to.

bukod pa dyan ang issue ng reliability ng bible kasi hindi kilala ang mga authors nito, ipinagpapalagay lang.


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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Yidda on Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:01 pm

Those seem to be minor discrepancies(perhaps you were referring to bible contradiction) can be explained with some thought and reading, but this is not very edifying. This is not the type of question that I was asking for in this thread.
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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Jewel on Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:25 pm

Yidda wrote:Those seem to be minor discrepancies(perhaps you were referring to bible contradiction) can be explained with some thought and reading, but this is not very edifying. This is not the type of question that I was asking for in this thread.

So you knew that there are discrepancies in the bible dont you?

Yes you are partly right, I am referring to those bible contradictions, and I dont consider them as minor discrepancies because some of them cant be harmonized/reconciled no matter what method you'll use. Some of them are clear scientific errors - I dont think that the word of God which is supposed to be infallible does contain such stuff because to be infallible means free of any error be it minor or otherwise.

Moreover, there proven interpolations in the bible; verses which are not supposed to be part of the bible but is found/included therein. Furthermore, many books in the bible in which the authors are unknown. Even the four gospels of the new testament though their titles are Matthew Luke Mark and John, scholars agree that those are anonymous people, they were not the real writers but their names are just used.

Do these facts affect your faith in the bible or not?


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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Yidda on Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:19 pm

Jewel wrote:

So you knew that there are discrepancies in the bible dont you?

Yes you are partly right, I am referring to those bible contradictions, and I dont consider them as minor discrepancies because some of them cant be harmonized/reconciled no matter what method you'll use. Some of them are clear scientific errors - I dont think that the word of God which is supposed to be infallible does contain such stuff because to be infallible means free of any error be it minor or otherwise.

Moreover, there proven interpolations in the bible; verses which are not supposed to be part of the bible but is found/included therein. Furthermore, many books in the bible in which the authors are unknown. Even the four gospels of the new testament though their titles are Matthew Luke Mark and John, scholars agree that those are anonymous people, they were not the real writers but their names are just used.

Do these facts affect your faith in the bible or not?


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True Faith is not our adherence to a set of ideas, statements, or doctrines. Faith is not our human ability to trust something or someone. True Faith is a supernatural gift from God.

Biblical Inerrancy

Errors of Particular Editions

Now everyone who studies Sacred Scripture is cognizant that the ancient manuscripts of the Bible contain numerous copyist errors, that some printings contain printer errors, that some translations contain translation errors, and that some edits contain editing errors. But such errors are not of Sacred Scripture itself, they are of the particular edition. Errors in particular editions can be recognized by comparing various manuscripts, versions, edits, etc. to one another.The total inspiration and total inerrancy of Sacred Scripture applies to Sacred Scripture itself, not to the particulars of individual editions. Therefore, the inerrancy of Sacred Scripture itself is unharmed by the errors particular to any edition.

Original Manuscripts

Some Christians claim that only the original manuscripts are inspiredand inerrant. But it is well-known, even to those who make such aclaim, that none of the original manuscripts are extant. And so theyfurther say that scholars must reconstruct the original text to recoveror to determine what is inspired and inerrant. Such a scheme puts the inspired and inerrant text out of reach of the faithful, and makes the decisions of scholars the arbitrators of what is and is not original,and therefore of what is and is not inspired and inerrant. Such a scheme, in effect, replaces Sacred Scripture with the majority decision of scholars, and thereby erroneously places scholarship above faith.

The error here is to assume that, after the authorship of each book was completed, the Holy Spirit withdrew and permitted the corruption of thetext to almost any extent. To the contrary, the Holy Spirit remains with the Church to ensure that the infallible truths of Sacred Tradition are continually handed on in a manner that keeps even the smallest truth from being subtracted or corrupted, and that prevents the smallest falsehood from entering into Sacred Tradition. And theHoly Spirit remains with the Church to ensure that the infallible truths of Sacred Scripture are continually handed on in a manner thatkeeps even the smallest truth from being subtracted or corrupted, and that prevents the smallest falsehood from entering into Sacred Scripture.

Particular errors are permitted in particular editions. And the copyists, printers, translators, and editors of the text are notinspired by God. Yet the Holy Spirit nevertheless prevents error from being added, truth from being subtracted, and truth from being corrupted, in Sacred Scripture itself. No truth of Sacred Scripture has passed away from every extant edition. No error has been added to every extant edition. No corruption has occurred in every extant edition. Nor even has any error, corruption, or subtraction reached such an extent that the truth cannot be discerned from the editions that are extant.

This protection that the Holy Spirit grants to Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture is an essential part of the indefectibility of the Church. For the Church guides us by means of Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, and the Magisterium of the Church teaches only what is explicit in, or at least implicit in (i.e. necessarily connected with), Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. If the handing on ofSacred Tradition or Sacred Scripture could be corrupted, then theteachings of the Magisterium would be based on what is corrupt and the indefectibility of the Church would be lost. Therefore, total inspiration and total inerrancy is not limited solely to the original manuscripts, but extends even to the body of the Sacred Texts which are extant in any generation, and are in use and being lived by any generation.


Last edited by Yidda on Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:30 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Yidda on Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:26 pm

still on the subject of biblical inerrancy

Solutions to Apparent Errors

Now if someone proposes a contradiction or an error in the Bible, I know by faith that there is a true, faithful, reasonable explanation as to why that proposal is incorrect. On many occasions, when I have sought a solution, I did find it. But often times, I do not even bother to seek the explanation, because the claimed error is usually trivial,and because I know with certainty by faith that it is not, in fact, an error.

But numerous persons, whose faith is either weak or absent, have attacked Sacred Scripture by claiming certain contradictions or apparent errors in the text. They compare what is said in different books, and find apparent contradictions. Or they compare assertions made by the ancient text to the views of modern science, or to current theories in archaeology, and, having found a disagreement, they assume that the Bible is in error. Most of such claimed errors can be easily refuted. Interestingly, when a solution to a claimed contradiction or error is presented, the complainant typically rejects the solution and continues to cling to the same claim of error.

If even reason itself, without faith, offers an explanation as to why a particular point is not an error in Sacred Scripture, why is the solution rejected? Many such persons, who arrogantly assert that the Bible is full of errors, use this claim to reject any teaching of the Bible that they dislike. They want the Bible to have errors so that they will not be bound by any of its teachings. Arguments, such as those given above, that the Church has infallibly taught the inerrancy of Sacred Scripture, are rejected with little or no explanation. For they know that if they accept the Bible as inerrant, they will have to change their lives to conform to the teaching of Christ in the Bible.
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Re: Catholic Theology Q & A

Post by Jewel on Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:15 pm

Yidda wrote:

True Faith is not our adherence to a set of ideas, statements, or doctrines. Faith is not our human ability to trust something or someone. True Faith is a supernatural gift from God.

Biblical Inerrancy

Errors of Particular Editions

Now everyone who studies Sacred Scripture is cognizant that the ancient manuscripts of the Bible contain numerous copyist errors, that some printings contain printer errors, that some translations contain translation errors, and that some edits contain editing errors. But such errors are not of Sacred Scripture itself, they are of the particular edition. Errors in particular editions can be recognized by comparing various manuscripts, versions, edits, etc. to one another.The total inspiration and total inerrancy of Sacred Scripture applies to Sacred Scripture itself, not to the particulars of individual editions. Therefore, the inerrancy of Sacred Scripture itself is unharmed by the errors particular to any edition.

Original Manuscripts

Some Christians claim that only the original manuscripts are inspiredand inerrant. But it is well-known, even to those who make such aclaim, that none of the original manuscripts are extant. And so theyfurther say that scholars must reconstruct the original text to recoveror to determine what is inspired and inerrant. Such a scheme puts the inspired and inerrant text out of reach of the faithful, and makes the decisions of scholars the arbitrators of what is and is not original,and therefore of what is and is not inspired and inerrant. Such a scheme, in effect, replaces Sacred Scripture with the majority decision of scholars, and thereby erroneously places scholarship above faith.

The error here is to assume that, after the authorship of each book was completed, the Holy Spirit withdrew and permitted the corruption of thetext to almost any extent. To the contrary, the Holy Spirit remains with the Church to ensure that the infallible truths of Sacred Tradition are continually handed on in a manner that keeps even the smallest truth from being subtracted or corrupted, and that prevents the smallest falsehood from entering into Sacred Tradition. And theHoly Spirit remains with the Church to ensure that the infallible truths of Sacred Scripture are continually handed on in a manner thatkeeps even the smallest truth from being subtracted or corrupted, and that prevents the smallest falsehood from entering into Sacred Scripture.

Particular errors are permitted in particular editions. And the copyists, printers, translators, and editors of the text are notinspired by God. Yet the Holy Spirit nevertheless prevents error from being added, truth from being subtracted, and truth from being corrupted, in Sacred Scripture itself. No truth of Sacred Scripture has passed away from every extant edition. No error has been added to every extant edition. No corruption has occurred in every extant edition. Nor even has any error, corruption, or subtraction reached such an extent that the truth cannot be discerned from the editions that are extant.

This protection that the Holy Spirit grants to Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture is an essential part of the indefectibility of the Church. For the Church guides us by means of Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, and the Magisterium of the Church teaches only what is explicit in, or at least implicit in (i.e. necessarily connected with), Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. If the handing on ofSacred Tradition or Sacred Scripture could be corrupted, then theteachings of the Magisterium would be based on what is corrupt and the indefectibility of the Church would be lost. Therefore, total inspiration and total inerrancy is not limited solely to the original manuscripts, but extends even to the body of the Sacred Texts which are extant in any generation, and are in use and being lived by any generation.

Copyist error huh? Seems copy&paste from webs.

could you cite for me a single version of the bible today that has got no error or contradiction??

Im just curious if there is any. If there is one, i'd be happy to know and that will be well and good.

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