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How Did We Get The Quran?

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How Did We Get The Quran?

Post by Jewel on Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:29 pm

I invite all Muslim Brothers to watch this very informative/educational video about the Quran.







Jazakallahu Khairan !
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Re: How Did We Get The Quran?

Post by Jewel on Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:02 pm

Please take note of the error/confusion of the surname of Zaid.

It is not Zaid bin Harith but Zaid bin Thabit.


Salam
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Re: How Did We Get The Quran?

Post by Pablo San Pedro on Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:12 pm

Is the Quran the "verbatim word of God?"

How can that be when the Surah 53:5 and 10 says that God did not even reveal the Quran?


Surah 53:5, 10

He has been taught
(this Qur'an) by one mighty in power
[
Jibril (Gabriel)]

So (Allah) revealed to
His slave [Muhammad
صلى الله عليه وسلم
through Jibril (Gabriel) عليه
السلام] whatever He revealed.



Surah 53:5 and 10 are clear. It was not God who revealed or taught the Quran but "Jibril."

So, how can Deen say that it is the "verbatim word of God"?
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Re: How Did We Get The Quran?

Post by Pablo San Pedro on Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:25 pm

Deen said the Quran was "unedited."

The Hadith contradicts and refutes Deen in Sahih Al Bukhari Book 61:510

The Hadith says Caliph Uthman ordered the Quran (already compiled by Zaid bin Thabit in Bukhari 60:201) to be "rewritten" and even reworded to match Quraish.



Sahih Bukhari 61:510 reads:
"Narrated Anas bin Malik: Hudhaifa bin
Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time
when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to
conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people
of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he
said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the
Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (quran) as Jews and the Christians did
before." So 'Uthman sent a message
to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may
compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the
manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman.
'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin
Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin
Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the
manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman
said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin
Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of
Quraish
, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when
they had written many copies, 'uthman
returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'uthman
sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and
ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in
fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies,
be burnt. Said bin Thabit
added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the
Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched
for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse
was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant
with Allah.' (33.23)
(Book #61,
Hadith #510)


Bukhari 61:510 clearly states that the Quran was ordered "re-written" by Caliph Uthman, thus was edited.

So, where did Deen get the idea that the Quran was "unedited"?


Who is the greater authority? Deen or the Hadith?
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Re: How Did We Get The Quran?

Post by Pablo San Pedro on Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:41 pm

The show of Deen is about "How the Quran was compiled." And yet, his guest, Dr. Mamdouh Mohamed, quotes the Quran and says that "indeed I sent down the whole Quran and indeed I will keep it unchanged."

How can they talk about how the Quran was compiled when it was supposed to have been "sent down ... whole"?

Isn't that a clear contradiction?



You only compile that which is fragmented and scattered. You do not compile what is already "whole." Right?

So, is someone pulling our leg in this video?



Again, if it was sent down in fragments and someone compiles it, then it was already changed.

Something that is separate is clearly changed when it is put together to be compiled. It is no longer in its original "fragmented" and "separate" condition.



This show of Deen is full of contradictions. How can we believe what they say?
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Re: How Did We Get The Quran?

Post by Pablo San Pedro on Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:01 pm

Dr. Mamhoud Mohamed said the Quran was given to the Prophet of Islam by the "angel Gabriel."


  • Did anyone actually see this "angel" reveal any verse of the Quran to Islam's prophet?


  • Did anyone actually hear this "angel" reveal any part of the Quran to the Prophet of Islam?

The show of Deen is supposed to present proof that the Quran is the "verbatim word of God."

What greater proof is there than an eyewitness account that would say that someone "saw" or "heard" the "angel" reveal the Quran to Islam's prophet?



So, did anyone actually see or hear this angel?

If none, then what real basis do we have to believe the story of Dr. Mohamed?
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Re: How Did We Get The Quran?

Post by harballah on Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:26 pm

cenon bibe thread ito ni whitejewel at kung gusto mo akong sumagot ay gusto ko sana one by one para hindi naghahalo ang maging tugon ko kasi baka masayang kung hindi ko rin makuha ang sagot mo pagkatapos kang sagutin, dapat sumagot karin kasi alam ko napulot mo lang iyan sa mga anti-islam websites at gumamit ka lang ng copy, cut and paste.

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Re: How Did We Get The Quran?

Post by Pablo San Pedro on Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:46 pm

harballah wrote:cenon bibe thread ito ni whitejewel at kung gusto mo akong sumagot ay gusto ko sana one by one para hindi naghahalo ang maging tugon ko kasi baka masayang kung hindi ko rin makuha ang sagot mo pagkatapos kang sagutin, dapat sumagot karin kasi alam ko napulot mo lang iyan sa mga anti-islam websites at gumamit ka lang ng copy, cut and paste.

Kahit sino po ay puwedeng sumagot sa mga tanong ko.

Kung inaakala ninyong hindi kayang sumagot ni White Jewel ay kayo po ang bahala.

Puwede rin naman na dalawa kayong sumagot. Wala pong problema yon.



Anti-islam po ba ang Surah 53:5, 10 at ang mga Sahih Al Bukhari na hadith?

Yan po ang batayan ng mga tanong ko e.

Kung anti-islam ang Surah 53:5, 10 at Bukhari ay paki deklara po para malaman ng lahat.
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Re: How Did We Get The Quran?

Post by Pablo San Pedro on Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:11 pm

Marami pa po akong ipo-post tungkol sa contradictions na sinasabi ng Hadith at Quran.

Sana po masagot muna ninyo ang mga nasa itaas.
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Re: How Did We Get The Quran?

Post by harballah on Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:42 pm

Pablo San Pedro wrote:
Kahit sino po ay puwedeng sumagot sa mga tanong ko.

Kung inaakala ninyong hindi kayang sumagot ni White Jewel ay kayo po ang bahala.

Puwede rin naman na dalawa kayong sumagot. Wala pong problema yon.



Anti-islam po ba ang Surah 53:5, 10 at ang mga Sahih Al Bukhari na hadith?

Yan po ang batayan ng mga tanong ko e.

Kung anti-islam ang Surah 53:5, 10 at Bukhari ay paki deklara po para malaman ng lahat.

Tutuo po na gusto kung sumagot sa mga tanong mo ngunit ayaw ko na halo-halo sapagkat naranasan ko na kapag sinagot ko ang isa ay tatambakan naman ng iba gayong hindi pa ako nakapagtanong kung naunawaan ng kausap ko o sadyang tinatakasan niya.

Ngayon puwede ba natin talakayin iyan sa separate thread upang malaman natin ang gusto mong bigyan pansin sa nakatala sa Quran natmin at hadith.

Kaya ko nasabi na anti-islam ang pinagkunan mo sapagkat kinahoy po ang talata ng Quran, ikaw ba kaya mong ipakita sa akin na galing sa Islam sites ang pinagkunan mo ng post mo, sige latag mo kung hindi ka nagsisinungaling cenon bibe.

Papaano ikaw ba ang gagawa ng thread tungkol sa surang iyan 53:5, mas maganda kung talakayin natin upang makita natin ang exegesis ng nabanggit na talata kung kailan iyan ibinaba at kung anong dahilan, ganyan po ang Islam tinitingnan ang pinanggalingan ng Surah unlike sa ginagawa mo dito.

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Re: How Did We Get The Quran?

Post by harballah on Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:46 pm

Pablo San Pedro wrote:Marami pa po akong ipo-post tungkol sa contradictions na sinasabi ng Hadith at Quran.

Sana po masagot muna ninyo ang mga nasa itaas.

May thread po dito about contradiction doon mo ilagay para sa ganoon ay nasa iisang topic lang po ang tinatalakay at kung pinag-uusapan ang kontradisyon ay dapat isa-sa para maunawaan mo at huwag mong daanin sa pagtambak na kesyo ang dami mong paskil via copy, cut and paste.

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Re: How Did We Get The Quran?

Post by Pablo San Pedro on Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:13 am

Marami po akong tanong sa itaas, hindi lang ang tungkol sa Surah 53:5,10

Ayaw po ba ninyong sagutin yung ibang tanong ko?


Anyway, ang pinagkuhan ko ng quote sa Surah 53:5, 10 ay ang Islamic website na www.searchtruth.com (http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=53&translator=5&mac=)

Ganito po ang sabi riyan:

Surah 53:5, 10

5He has been taught (this Qur'an) by one mighty in power [Jibril (Gabriel)]

10So (Allah) revealed to His slave [Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم through Jibril (Gabriel) عليه السلام] whatever He revealed.


Diyan po ay malinaw na sinasabi na ang Quran ay hindi ang Diyos ang nag-reveal kundi isa raw "Jibril."

At kahit yung Dr. Mamhoud Mohamed ay nagsabi na yung "Jibril" ang nagbigay ng Quran sa Propeta ng Islam at hindi ang Diyos mismo.



Diyan po pumapasok ang ibang tanong ko:

1. May nakakita ba nung i-reveal nung "Jibril" ang Quran sa Propeta ng Islam?

2. May nakarinig po ba nung gawin nung "Jibril" ang pag-reveal ng Quran sa Propeta ng Islam?



Baka po ang mga iyan sa ilalim ay puwede na ninyong masagot.
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Re: How Did We Get The Quran?

Post by harballah on Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:41 am

Pablo San Pedro wrote:Marami po akong tanong sa itaas, hindi lang ang tungkol sa Surah 53:5,10

Ayaw po ba ninyong sagutin yung ibang tanong ko?


Anyway, ang pinagkuhan ko ng quote sa Surah 53:5, 10 ay ang Islamic website na www.searchtruth.com (http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=53&translator=5&mac=)

Ganito po ang sabi riyan:

Surah 53:5, 10

5He has been taught (this Qur'an) by one mighty in power [Jibril (Gabriel)]

10So (Allah) revealed to His slave [Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم through Jibril (Gabriel) عليه السلام] whatever He revealed.


Diyan po ay malinaw na sinasabi na ang Quran ay hindi ang Diyos ang nag-reveal kundi isa raw "Jibril."

At kahit yung Dr. Mamhoud Mohamed ay nagsabi na yung "Jibril" ang nagbigay ng Quran sa Propeta ng Islam at hindi ang Diyos mismo.



Diyan po pumapasok ang ibang tanong ko:

1. May nakakita ba nung i-reveal nung "Jibril" ang Quran sa Propeta ng Islam?

2. May nakarinig po ba nung gawin nung "Jibril" ang pag-reveal ng Quran sa Propeta ng Islam?


Baka po ang mga iyan sa ilalim ay puwede na ninyong masagot.

Una sa lahat ay hindi sa ayaw kung sagutin ang sinabi mong ibang tanong kundi ayaw ko lang maglabo-labo ang paksa natin dito lalo na magkakaibang talata po ang ginagamit ninyo, ang kapahayagan ay umabot ng 23 years at hindi po isang bagsakan lang iyan.

Sigurado kayo na galing diyan ang pinagkunan mo, kung galing diyan ay bakit po ninyo kinahoy ang verse ng Quran.

Sige po latag natin ang kabuuan ng nasa chapter 53:5-10


Chapter 53:
5 Which one of mighty powers hath taught him,
6 One vigorous; and he grew clear to view
7 When he was on the uppermost horizon.
8 Then he drew nigh and came down
9 Till he was (distant) two bows' length or even nearer,
10 And He revealed unto His slave that which He revealed.


Kapag nagbasi kaba sa Quran ay palukso, kasi nagkowt ka ng chapter 53 pero niluksuan mo ang ibang talata, ngayon pagbibigyan kita sa haka-haka mo diyan.

1) Una bakit mo tinatanong kung may nakakita ng ipahayag ang Quran, alangan naman na kailangan pang may makakita para masabing galing nga sa Allah ang Quran.

2) Mayroon pong pagkakataon na may nakasama ang propheta muhammad (pbuh) na isa sa kanyang sahabat (companion) at narinig niya ang pagbanggit niya ng isang rebelasyon na ipinahayag sa kanya.


Narrated 'Abdullah: While we were in the company of the Prophet in a cave at Mina, when Surat-wal-Mursalat were revealed and he recited it and I heard it (directly) from his mouth as soon as he recited its revelation. Suddenly a snake sprang at us and the Prophet said (ordered us): "Kill it." We ran to kill it but it escaped quickly. The Prophet said, "It has escaped your evil and you too have escaped its evil." (Sahih Bukhari: Book #29, Hadith #56)

Kaya mali itong haka-haka mo na tumatakbo diyan sa utak mo.

Pablo San Pedro wrote:Diyan po ay malinaw na sinasabi na ang Quran ay hindi ang Diyos ang nag-reveal kundi isa raw "Jibril."

May tanong nga pala ako sa iyo at pakisagot naman.

Ang Diyos mo ba ay hindi isinugo si Anghel Gabriel sa mga importanteng misyon o mga pahayag galing
sa kanya.


Pakisagot lang po, bigayan lang po sana tayo.

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Re: How Did We Get The Quran?

Post by Pablo San Pedro on Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:13 pm

Harballah said:

Sige po latag natin ang kabuuan ng nasa chapter 53:5-10

Chapter 53:
5 Which one of mighty powers hath taught him,
6 One vigorous; and he grew clear to view
7 When he was on the uppermost horizon.
8 Then he drew nigh and came down
9 Till he was (distant) two bows' length or even nearer,
10 And He revealed unto His slave that which He revealed.


Kapag
nagbasi kaba sa Quran ay palukso, kasi nagkowt ka ng chapter 53 pero
niluksuan mo ang ibang talata, ngayon pagbibigyan kita sa haka-haka mo
diyan.


Ano po ang nabago sa na-quote ko nung buohin ninyo ang sinasabi ng surah mula verse 5 to 10?

Wala pong nabago. Pareho pa rin po ang sinasabi:
Hindi ang Diyos ang nag-reveal ng Quran kundi isa raw "anghel."

At ang tanong ko nga po ay sino ang nakarinig o nakakita diyan sa "anghel" na yan nung nag-reveal daw yan?
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Re: How Did We Get The Quran?

Post by Pablo San Pedro on Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:33 pm

Harballah said:

1) Una bakit mo tinatanong kung may nakakita ng ipahayag ang Quran,
alangan naman na kailangan pang may makakita para masabing galing nga sa
Allah ang Quran.


Mahalaga pong malaman kung may nakakita dun sa "anghel." Yun po kasi ang magpapatunay kung totoo nga na may "anghel" na nag-reveal.

Kung walang proof e dapat po bang paniwalaan ang sinabi ng isang tao?

Kung ang Panginoong Hesus na pinatotohanan na ng maraming saksi ay nagdududa pa kayo, bakit kayo maniniwala sa kwento na wala namang iba na nakasaksi? Walang proof.

Harballah said:

2) Mayroon pong pagkakataon na may nakasama ang
propheta muhammad (pbuh) na isa sa kanyang sahabat (companion) at
narinig niya ang pagbanggit niya ng isang rebelasyon na ipinahayag sa
kanya.


Narrated 'Abdullah: While we were in the company of the Prophet in a cave at Mina, when Surat-wal-Mursalat were revealed and he recited it and I heard it (directly) from his mouth as soon as he recited its revelation.
Suddenly a snake sprang at us and the Prophet said (ordered us): "Kill
it." We ran to kill it but it escaped quickly. The Prophet said, "It has
escaped your evil and you too have escaped its evil." (Sahih Bukhari:
Book #29, Hadith #56)

Kaya mali itong haka-haka mo na tumatakbo diyan sa utak mo.


Wala pong sinabi riyan na yung "anghel" ang narinig nang "directly" nung Abdullah at mga kasama niya.

Heto po ang sabi ng binanggit ninyong hadith:
While we were in the company of the Prophet in a cave at Mina, when Surat-wal-Mursalat were revealed and he recited it and I heard it (directly) from his mouth as soon as he recited its revelation.

1. May nabasa po ba kayong "anghel" diyan?

Wala po, di po ba?


2. May nabasa po ba kayo na yung narinig nilang nag-reveal ay yung "anghel"?

Wala rin po.


3. So, sino ang tinutukoy na nag-reveal at narinig nung mga kasama ng Propeta ninyo?

E di yung Propeta po ninyo. Siya yung tinutukoy na "he" at "his" diyan sa hadith na iyan.

Ang "revelation" niya ang "directly" na narinig nung mga companion. Hindi yung sinabi raw nung "anghel."


Kung tutuusin po ay lalong humina ang kaso para run sa "anghel" e.

Bakit, ika n'yo?


Kasama na pala yung mga companion dun sa kweba nung tumanggap daw ng "revelation" ang Propeta ninyo pero wala pa silang nakita o narinig na "anghel."

Napakahina naman nung mga companions kung nakita o narinig na nila mismo yung "anghel" tapos hindi pa nila binanggit na yun nga ang narinig nila. Tama, di po ba?

So, kung may haka-haka po riyan ay iyan yung paniniwala na "anghel" ang narinig ng mga companion.

Wala pong binanggit sa hadith na "anghel" e.



So, ang logical conclusion diyan ay malinaw na wala ngang nakakita o nakarinig dun sa "anghel" na gumawa raw ng "revelation."

Baka may iba pa kayong hadith kung saan sinasabi na narinig ng mga companion yung mismong "anghel" ay paki bigay na lang po.
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Re: How Did We Get The Quran?

Post by harballah on Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:41 am

Pablo San Pedro wrote:

Mahalaga pong malaman kung may nakakita dun sa "anghel." Yun po kasi ang magpapatunay kung totoo nga na may "anghel" na nag-reveal.

Kung walang proof e dapat po bang paniwalaan ang sinabi ng isang tao?

Kung ang Panginoong Hesus na pinatotohanan na ng maraming saksi ay nagdududa pa kayo, bakit kayo maniniwala sa kwento na wala namang iba na nakasaksi? Walang proof.

Brad ikaw ba kapag naglatag ako na nakasama pa nila ang anghel noong panahon ng giyera ng propheta ay tatanggapin mong walang saysay ang argumento mo sa akin, ayaw ko kasing makipagtalo lalo na sa isang kasing kulit mo.

Pablo San Pedro wrote:
Wala pong sinabi riyan na yung "anghel" ang narinig nang "directly" nung Abdullah at mga kasama niya.

Heto po ang sabi ng binanggit ninyong hadith:


1. May nabasa po ba kayong "anghel" diyan?

Wala po, di po ba?


2. May nabasa po ba kayo na yung narinig nilang nag-reveal ay yung "anghel"?

Wala rin po.


3. So, sino ang tinutukoy na nag-reveal at narinig nung mga kasama ng Propeta ninyo?

E di yung Propeta po ninyo. Siya yung tinutukoy na "he" at "his" diyan sa hadith na iyan.

Ang "revelation" niya ang "directly" na narinig nung mga companion. Hindi yung sinabi raw nung "anghel."


Kung tutuusin po ay lalong humina ang kaso para run sa "anghel" e.

Bakit, ika n'yo?


Kasama na pala yung mga companion dun sa kweba nung tumanggap daw ng "revelation" ang Propeta ninyo pero wala pa silang nakita o narinig na "anghel."

Napakahina naman nung mga companions kung nakita o narinig na nila mismo yung "anghel" tapos hindi pa nila binanggit na yun nga ang narinig nila. Tama, di po ba?

So, kung may haka-haka po riyan ay iyan yung paniniwala na "anghel" ang narinig ng mga companion.

Wala pong binanggit sa hadith na "anghel" e.



So, ang logical conclusion diyan ay malinaw na wala ngang nakakita o nakarinig dun sa "anghel" na gumawa raw ng "revelation."

Baka may iba pa kayong hadith kung saan sinasabi na narinig ng mga companion yung mismong "anghel" ay paki bigay na lang po.


Brad noong bang ipinahayag ang sampung kautusan kayMoses may nakakita, sige po pakisagot lang po iyan bago ako magsayang ng oras sa walang kuwentang argumento mo, kapag may naipakita ka na may nakakita nga noong ipinahayag ito ng Diyos kay Moses talo na ako.

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Re: How Did We Get The Quran?

Post by harballah on Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:47 am

Pablo San Pedro wrote:


Ano po ang nabago sa na-quote ko nung buohin ninyo ang sinasabi ng surah mula verse 5 to 10?

Wala pong nabago. Pareho pa rin po ang sinasabi:
Hindi ang Diyos ang nag-reveal ng Quran kundi isa raw "anghel."

At ang tanong ko nga po ay sino ang nakarinig o nakakita diyan sa "anghel" na yan nung nag-reveal daw yan?

May nabago po at tinatanong kita kung ang pagbasa mo ba ay palukso mula sa 5 lumulukso sa 10 ?

Gusto mo ba dalhin natin sa debate iyan tutal iyan naman ang sinabi ko sa inyo doon sa facebook na dito tayo magdebate tungkol sa mga kinokowt mo na verse ng Quran namin, patunayan mo sa debate natin na basi sa verse na ginamit mo diyan ay ang anghel gabriel ang may ari ng rebelasyon at hindi ang Allah subhana wa taalah.

Please lang po hindi iyan ang paksa ng thread ni whitejewel kundi nakabasi doon sa bidyo, puwede ba natin dalhin sa debate iyan cenon bibe. Cool

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Re: How Did We Get The Quran?

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