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Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

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Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Comb@tron on Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:13 pm

Hi catholic friends!

Can you site any verses stating that Jesus, prophet or any disciples baptize an infant to be a christian?

If none, it is unchristian practise!

discuss
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Comb@tron on Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:29 pm

This is from old BARM

[QUOTE=Comb@tron;921823]A few weeks after being born, my mom brought me to a church and some priest poured water on my head and everybody was happy. Then he signed a piece of paper and gave it to her. Nobody can deny I'm christian!

Am i right ramcam?

Catholicarchie;922991]yes, the child would be Christian, by age 7 the child will confirm his faith. before that, the Child will attend Church and will be brought up Christian by the parents

ramcam2;923695]you are correct. you underwent the sacrament of baptism. the piece of paper is a baptismal certificate. you became a member of Christ's body which is the Church. you are now officially a Christian....congratulations!

this is a practice since the Apostolic Church.

The Didache
"After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. If you have no living water, then baptize in other water, and if you are not able in cold, then in warm. If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Before baptism, let the one baptizing and the one to be baptized fast, as also any others who are able. Command the one who is to be baptized to fast beforehand for one or two days" (Didache 7:1 [ca. A.D. 70]).

Origen
"Why, when the Lord himself told his disciples that they should baptize all peoples in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, does this apostle employ the name of Christ alone in baptism, saying, 'We who have been baptized into Christ'; for indeed, legitimate baptism is had only in the name of the Trinity" (Commentary on Romans 5:8 [ca. A.D. 250]).

"The Church received from the apostles the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of divine mysteries, knew that there is in everyone the innate stain of sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit" (Ibid. 5:9).



http://www.thebereans.net/forum2/showthread.php?t=52238



Last edited by Comb@tron on Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by fredms3 on Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:44 pm

Comby,

I can share on this topic probably next week. I'm indispose Sat and Sunday.

Anyway, are you looking for the literal text of infant baptism?

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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Comb@tron on Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:53 pm

Hi ka freddy no problem ako naman ang wala sa weekend.

yes po literal Smile
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by RavlaM on Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:10 pm

Comb@tron wrote:Hi catholic friends!

Can you site any verses stating that Jesus, prophet or any disciples baptize an infant to be a christian?

If none, it is unchristian practise!

discuss

I will cite to you some verses that suggests that infants have been baptized...

Acts 16:14-15 "Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul. And when she and her household were baptized,she begged us, saying, 'If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.' So she persuaded us."

*It is clearly stated that households were baptized. Now the word "household" in simple definition means:Those who dwell under the same roof and compose a family. Logic: an infant can also be part of the household = Therefore infants have been baptized..

Here are other verses..


Acts 16:31-34 "So they said, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.' Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food
before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household."


1 Corinthians 1:16 "Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other."



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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Ateo on Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:59 pm

RavlaM wrote:

I will cite to you some verses that suggests that infants have been baptized...

[/font]
Acts 16:14-15 "Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul. And when she and her household were baptized,she begged us, saying, 'If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.' So she persuaded us."

*It is clearly stated that households were baptized. Now the word "household" in simple definition means:Those who dwell under the same roof and compose a family. Logic: an infant can also be part of the household = Therefore infants have been baptized..

Here are other verses..


Acts 16:31-34 "So they said, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.' Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food
before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household."


1 Corinthians 1:16 "Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other."






"Suggest" may not be good enough. Such important doctrine as "infant baptism" should not be suggested but should have been clearly stated.

It is not clear if those households had infants. Also, there could be exceptions to the rule. When the Ten Commandments said "thou shalt not kill", there are actually exceptions to it. So, when the household of Stephanas was baptized, we don't know if there were those that did not qualify.

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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Comb@tron on Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:45 am

RavlaM wrote:I will cite to you some verses that suggests that infants have been baptized...

[/font]
Acts 16:14-15 "Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul. And when she and her household were baptized,she begged us, saying, 'If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.' So she persuaded us."

*It is clearly stated that households were baptized. Now the word "household" in simple definition means:Those who dwell under the same roof and compose a family. Logic: an infant can also be part of the household = Therefore infants have been baptized..

Here are other verses..


Acts 16:31-34 "So they said, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.' Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food
before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household."


1 Corinthians 1:16 "Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other."


Hello Ravlam

Hindi parin convincing brad e, walang direct na sinabing pati infant nagpabaptize lalo na sa verse na binigay mo sa Acts 16:31-34 ang sabi "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household". Rav how sure are you that there is an infant na kasama sa sambahayan ng mga believers ni Jesus na nagpa baptize?

Take note infant is to young to believe brad Ravlam
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by fredms3 on Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:16 pm

Comb@tron wrote:Hi ka freddy no problem ako naman ang wala sa weekend.

yes po literal Smile

Comby,

If there's no literal text on that, then unacceptable on your part, is that it?

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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by RavlaM on Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:21 am

Comb@tron wrote:

Hello Ravlam

Hindi parin convincing brad e, walang direct na sinabing pati infant nagpabaptize lalo na sa verse na binigay mo sa Acts 16:31-34 ang sabi "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household". Rav how sure are you that there is an infant na kasama sa sambahayan ng mga believers ni Jesus na nagpa baptize?

Take note infant is to young to believe brad Ravlam

Comby, if you are not convinced tanong ko sa iyo kung ang baby mo ba ay hindi parte ng pamilya o household mo. Kung mayroon ka man pinanghahawakan na sinabing direktang hindi dapat binyagan ang mga sanggol sana paki post lang para malinawan.
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Gordon on Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:39 am

If you are an evangelical and you have eight year old (or younger) child. Your child died the next day. Did your child die as a pagan or an athiest?
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Dhugz on Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:32 pm

Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:3 - these texts show the circumcision of eight-day old
babies as the way of entering into the Old Covenant - Col 2:11-12 - however,
baptism is the new "circumcision" for all people of the New Covenant.
Therefore, baptism is for babies as well as adults. God did not make His new
Covenant narrower than the old Covenant. To the contrary, He made it wider, for
both Jews and Gentiles, infants and adults.
Job 14:1-4 - man that is born of woman is full of trouble and unclean. Baptism
is required for all human beings because of our sinful human nature.
Psalm 51:5 - we are conceived in the iniquity of sin. This shows the necessity
of baptism from conception.
Matt. 18:2-5 - Jesus says unless we become like children, we cannot enter into
heaven. So why would children be excluded from baptism?
Matt 19:14 - Jesus clearly says the kingdom of heaven also belongs to children.
There is no age limit on entering the kingdom, and no age limit for being
eligible for baptism.
Mark 10:14 - Jesus says to let the children come to Him for the kingdom of God
also belongs to them. Jesus says nothing about being too young to come into the
kingdom of God.
Mark 16:16 - Jesus says to the crowd, "He who believes and is baptized will be
saved." But in reference to the same people, Jesus immediately follows with "He
who does not believe will be condemned." This demonstrates that one can be
baptized and still not be a believer. This disproves the Protestant argument
that one must be a believer to be baptized. There is nothing in the Bible about
a "believer's baptism."
Luke 18:15 – Jesus says, “Let the children come to me.” The people brought
infants to Jesus that he might touch them. This demonstrates that the receipt
of grace is not dependent upon the age of reason.
Acts 2:38 - Peter says to the multitude, "Repent and be baptized.." Protestants
use this verse to prove one must be a believer (not an infant) to be baptized.
But the Greek translation literally says, "If you repent, then each one who is
a part of you and yours must each be baptized” (“Metanoesate kai bapistheto
hekastos hymon.”) This, contrary to what Protestants argue, actually proves
that babies are baptized based on their parents’ faith. This is confirmed in
the next verse.
Acts 2:39 - Peter then says baptism is specifically given to children as well
as adults. “Those far off” refers to those who were at their “homes” (primarily
infants and children). God's covenant family includes children. The word
"children" that Peter used comes from the Greek word "teknon" which also
includes infants.
Luke 1:59 - this proves that "teknon" includes infants. Here, John as a
"teknon" (infant) was circumcised. See also Acts 21:21 which uses “teknon” for
eight-day old babies. So baptism is for infants as well as adults.
Acts 10:47-48 - Peter baptized the entire house of Cornelius, which generally
included infants and young children. There is not one word in Scripture about
baptism being limited to adults.
Acts 16:15 - Paul baptized Lydia and her entire household. The word "household"
comes from the Greek word "oikos" which is a household that includes infants
and children.
Acts 16:15 - further, Paul baptizes the household based on Lydia's faith, not
the faith of the members of the household. This demonstrates that parents can
present their children for baptism based on the parents' faith, not the
children's faith.
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Comb@tron on Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:47 pm

RavlaM wrote:Comby, if you are not convinced tanong ko sa iyo kung ang baby mo ba ay hindi parte ng pamilya o household mo. Kung mayroon ka man pinanghahawakan na sinabing direktang hindi dapat binyagan ang mga sanggol sana paki post lang para malinawan.

Hi brad rav. Ofcourse part sya ng sambahayan. Wala parin po ba kayong mailalabas na talata na pinabaptize ng mga believers ang mga sanggol na anak nila? Yung direktang sinabi?

Ang nilabas kasi ni dhugz na mga talata e wala parin e out of context parin walang malinaw na sinasabi na nagpabautismo ang isang sanggol.

@Gordon please stick to topic please?

Idadaan na po ba natin ito sa one on one Debate mga Catholic friends?

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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by RavlaM on Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:10 pm

Comb@tron wrote:

Hi brad rav. Ofcourse part sya ng sambahayan. Wala parin po ba kayong mailalabas na talata na pinabaptize ng mga believers ang mga sanggol na anak nila? Yung direktang sinabi?

Ang nilabas kasi ni dhugz na mga talata e wala parin e out of context parin walang malinaw na sinasabi na nagpabautismo ang isang sanggol.

@Gordon please stick to topic please?

Idadaan na po ba natin ito sa one on one Debate mga Catholic friends?


So ayaw mo pa rin makumbinse, yun tanong ko na kung may Bible verse ba na direktang nagbabawal sa "infant baptism?
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Comb@tron on Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:25 pm

^Walang pagbabawal brad. Pero nga ang tanong bibcal ba ito? Itinuro po ba ito mismo ni Jesus? o sinumang propeta o disipulo?

Imagine pano po magkakamalay ang sanggol na paniwalaan si Jesus e musmos palang po sya. Ito po ang isa sa mga talata na pinaghawakan nyo.

Acts 16:31-34 ang sabi "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household".

Paano mo brad Ravlam masasabi na maniniwala kay Jesus ang isang sanggol e musmos palang po sya?
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by RavlaM on Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:52 pm

Comb@tron wrote:^Walang pagbabawal brad. Pero nga ang tanong bibcal ba ito? Itinuro po ba ito mismo ni Jesus? o sinumang propeta o disipulo?

Imagine pano po magkakamalay ang sanggol na paniwalaan si Jesus e musmos palang po sya. Ito po ang isa sa mga talata na pinaghawakan nyo.

Acts 16:31-34 ang sabi "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household".

Paano mo brad Ravlam masasabi na maniniwala kay Jesus ang isang sanggol e musmos palang po sya?

.................................

Ayun naman pala eh wala palangdefinite na sinabi na di dapat ang "infant baptism". Anyway do you believe that an infant have no soul to be saved?

Itong verse na binaggit mo:
Acts 16:31-34 ang sabi "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household".

It said if you believe you will be saved, you and your family..You as in with the one with the capacity to believe, and your houshold....meaning if you believed on Jesus Christ you will be saved and your family....and your family follows because part of believing on Jesus Christ is bringing your household to Jesus Christ be it infant or grown up.
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Comb@tron on Wed May 04, 2011 10:36 am

RavlaM wrote:Ayun naman pala eh wala palangdefinite na sinabi na di dapat ang "infant baptism". Anyway do you believe that an infant have no soul to be saved?

Itong verse na binaggit mo:
Acts 16:31-34 ang sabi "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household".

It said if you believe you will be saved, you and your family..You as in with the one with the capacity to believe, and your houshold....meaning if you believed on Jesus Christ you will be saved and your family....and your family follows because part of believing on Jesus Christ is bringing your household to Jesus Christ be it infant or grown up.

Totally agree Rav kaya lang may prublema brad. Pano mo masasabi na ang isang baby ay maniniwala kay Jesus? Part sya ng sambahayan diba paano mo nasabing isa sya sa mga tumanggap kay Jesus?
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Comb@tron on Wed May 04, 2011 10:40 am

@Ravlam paano kung may maipakita ako sa inyong talata na nagsasabing kailangan munang Sumapalataya kay Jesukristo bago bautismuhan? Tatanggapin mo ba na unbiblical at hindi itunuro ni Hesus ang infant baptism ng Roman Catholic Church?


Last edited by Comb@tron on Wed May 04, 2011 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Dhugz on Wed May 04, 2011 11:55 am

Pero madami o karamihan sa mga evangelical eh may infant baptism
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Dhugz on Wed May 04, 2011 12:00 pm

Luke 18:15 – Jesus says, “Let the children come to me.” The people brought infants to Jesus that he might touch them. This demonstrates that the receipt of grace is not dependent upon the age of reason.
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Comb@tron on Wed May 04, 2011 12:54 pm

^Dhugz anong koneksyon nyan sa infant baptism?

Dhugz wrote:Pero madami o karamihan sa mga evangelical eh may infant baptism

hindi kita maintindihan dhugz paki expound naman
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Dhugz on Wed May 04, 2011 1:01 pm

Di ba may infant baptism din sa hanay niyo?
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Comb@tron on Wed May 04, 2011 1:03 pm

^wala brad dedication lang.

Anung koneksyon brad nung talatang pinost mo sa infant baptism?
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Dhugz on Wed May 04, 2011 1:14 pm

Ano ba ang baptism sa inyo Brad?
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Comb@tron on Wed May 04, 2011 2:19 pm

^Hindi mo parin sinasagot ang tanong ko.

Anung koneksyon brad nung talatang pinost mo sa infant baptism? eto yung talata

Luke 18:15 – Jesus says, “Let the children come to me.” The people brought infants to Jesus that he might touch them. This demonstrates that the receipt of grace is not dependent upon the age of reason.

ano koneksyon nyan?
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Re: Is there any Biblical proof for infant Baptism?

Post by Dhugz on Wed May 04, 2011 2:44 pm

Comb@tron wrote:^Hindi mo parin sinasagot ang tanong ko.

Anung koneksyon brad nung talatang pinost mo sa infant baptism? eto yung talata

Luke 18:15 – Jesus says, “Let the children come to me.” The people brought infants to Jesus that he might touch them. This demonstrates that the receipt of grace is not dependent upon the age of reason.

ano koneksyon nyan?

Kaya nga bago kita sagutin, ano ang bautismo sa inyo? May connection yan bro. Malaki.
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