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Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

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Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by the700clowns on Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:29 pm

sabi ko sa kabilang thread:

"NO... hindi maganda yang mga verses na yan dahil hindi practical at hindi makatotohanan na mahalin ang kaaway, malaking kalokohan yan, nire-rape na asawa mo e pinapakain mo pa ng masarap na pagkain yung rapist?!"


eto ang sagot ni Ravlam sa argumento ko:

RavlaM wrote:

Mali ang halimbawa mo, sana malaman mo na may mga authoridad na manghuhuli at paparusa sa mga nagkasala sa iyo...Ibig sabihin may kapatawaran pero may pananagutan..

may authoridad ngang manghuhuli sa rapist... pero habang nire-rape sa harap mo ang asawa mo e mamahalin mo ba ang kaaway mo?! pakakainin mo ba pagkatapos rapein?! "pare mahal kita, kahit ni-rape mo asawa ko, kain ko muna, balik ka bukas ha, rapein mo uli asawa ko! alam mo naman pag masaya ka e masaya na rin ako dahil mahal kita!"

pinasok ang bahay mo ng killer at balak kayong patayin lahat e hihintayin mo pa ba ang authority?! duh!!!! "o mga killers, pagbubuksan ko na kayo ng pinto, baka mahirapan pa kayong sipain ang pinto, baka mapilayan pa kayo, alam nyo naman mahal ko kayo, ayaw kong makitang nahihirapan kayo!"

Laughing
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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by harballah on Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:54 pm

Good question at sana hindi tayo gagamitan ni Ravlam ng talata mula sa NEW TESTAMENT, sumagot na lang siya basi sa pangyayaring iyan.

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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by RavlaM on Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:01 am

the700clowns wrote:sabi ko sa kabilang thread:

"NO... hindi maganda yang mga verses na yan dahil hindi practical at hindi makatotohanan na mahalin ang kaaway, malaking kalokohan yan, nire-rape na asawa mo e pinapakain mo pa ng masarap na pagkain yung rapist?!"


eto ang sagot ni Ravlam sa argumento ko:



may authoridad ngang manghuhuli sa rapist... pero habang nire-rape sa harap mo ang asawa mo e mamahalin mo ba ang kaaway mo?! pakakainin mo ba pagkatapos rapein?! "pare mahal kita, kahit ni-rape mo asawa ko, kain ko muna, balik ka bukas ha, rapein mo uli asawa ko! alam mo naman pag masaya ka e masaya na rin ako dahil mahal kita!"

pinasok ang bahay mo ng killer at balak kayong patayin lahat e hihintayin mo pa ba ang authority?! duh!!!! "o mga killers, pagbubuksan ko na kayo ng pinto, baka mahirapan pa kayong sipain ang pinto, baka mapilayan pa kayo, alam nyo naman mahal ko kayo, ayaw kong makitang nahihirapan kayo!"

Laughing

Mukhang bumababaw na talaga ang argumento ninyo hehehe..
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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by harballah on Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:10 am

Bakit naman naging mababaw brad, baka naman hindi mo ngayon ma-apply ang ipinangalandakan mong talata kaya mo nasabing mababaw.

Pakisagot na po ng deretsahan ang mababaw na iyan, please lang!

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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by RavlaM on Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:04 am

First of all we have the obligation to take care of our body. Our bodies are His property so we are not permitted to destroy it or let others destroy it.


19 Or know ye not that your body is a
temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which ye have from God? and
ye are not your own; 20 for ye were bought with a price: glorify God therefore in your body. (1Co 6:19-20 ASV)

======= We have an obligation to preserve the body and
life of other people. Psalm 82:4 even cites an obligation to protect
those who are in danger:


Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.

===================================If you know danger is coming to others, and you deliberately fail to
warn the others of the danger, you are guilty of harming the victims.

Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees
the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not
warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken
away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's
hand.'
===============================
Exodus 22 2-3




2
If a thief is found dbreaking in and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no bloodguilt for him, 3 but if the sun has risen on him, there shall be bloodguilt for him. He shall surely pay. If he has nothing, then ehe shall be sold for his theft.

Obviously here we see that when a thief breaks into someone’s house at
night and that person defends his home and slays the thief, God does not
hold that death over the defender’s head. However, God does not wish
for anyone to take law into his or her own hands. This is why it is said
that if a thief is struck down during the daylight the defender is
guilty of bloodshed. Now this is speaking of thievery, not an attack. So
if the thief were to attack the defender even during the day,
self-defense would be justified.
=======================================
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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by harballah on Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:17 am

Teka brad ravlam huwag mo naman kaming tabunan ng talata kasi simpleng tanong lang ito at hindi na kailangan ang talata para sagutin mo.

the700clowns wrote:sabi ko sa kabilang thread:

"NO... hindi maganda yang mga verses na yan dahil hindi practical at hindi makatotohanan na mahalin ang kaaway, malaking kalokohan yan, nire-rape na asawa mo e pinapakain mo pa ng masarap na pagkain yung rapist?!"


eto ang sagot ni Ravlam sa argumento ko:



may authoridad ngang manghuhuli sa rapist... pero habang nire-rape sa harap mo ang asawa mo e mamahalin mo ba ang kaaway mo?! pakakainin mo ba pagkatapos rapein?! "pare mahal kita, kahit ni-rape mo asawa ko, kain ko muna, balik ka bukas ha, rapein mo uli asawa ko! alam mo naman pag masaya ka e masaya na rin ako dahil mahal kita!"

pinasok ang bahay mo ng killer at balak kayong patayin lahat e hihintayin mo pa ba ang authority?! duh!!!! "o mga killers, pagbubuksan ko na kayo ng pinto, baka mahirapan pa kayong sipain ang pinto, baka mapilayan pa kayo, alam nyo naman mahal ko kayo, ayaw kong makitang nahihirapan kayo!"

Laughing

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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by RavlaM on Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:36 am

harballah wrote:Teka brad ravlam huwag mo naman kaming tabunan ng talata kasi simpleng tanong lang ito at hindi na kailangan ang talata para sagutin mo.


Imaginary situarions nanaman..paki basa lang ng mga verses..
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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by harballah on Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:37 am

RavlaM wrote:

Imaginary situarions nanaman..paki basa lang ng mga verses..

Brad puwede natin pag-usapan ang talata pero puwede pakisagot lang muna iyong tanong patungkol sa "love your enemies" kasi iyan ang paksa at hindi po paksa ang ibang inilatag mo na talata, kapag pinatulan namin iyan ay mawawala naman sa paksa tulad sa aking thread na ipinasok mo ang hindi kasama sa pinag-uusapan.

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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by RavlaM on Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:53 am

harballah wrote:

Brad puwede natin pag-usapan ang talata pero puwede pakisagot lang muna iyong tanong patungkol sa "love your enemies" kasi iyan ang paksa at hindi po paksa ang ibang inilatag mo na talata, kapag pinatulan namin iyan ay mawawala naman sa paksa tulad sa aking thread na ipinasok mo ang hindi kasama sa pinag-uusapan.

Ano ka ba harballah, masyado ka nang makulit...malinaw ang gustong ipagawa ng Panginoon sa amin, yan ay mahalin ang kaaway at pagpapatawad...lahat yan ay naipaliwanag at may angkop na talata akong ipinost..

Gusto mo bang pagusapan ang revenge as a means of justice in Islam? Magandang topic di po ba?
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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by harballah on Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:07 am

RavlaM wrote:

Ano ka ba harballah, masyado ka nang makulit...malinaw ang gustong ipagawa ng Panginoon sa amin, yan ay mahalin ang kaaway at pagpapatawad...lahat yan ay naipaliwanag at may angkop na talata akong ipinost..

Gusto mo bang pagusapan ang revenge as a means of justice in Islam? Magandang topic di po ba?

Sa madaling salita ay walang kang gagawin basi sa inilatag na ito ni clowns.


the700clowns wrote:
may authoridad ngang manghuhuli sa rapist... pero habang nire-rape sa harap mo ang asawa mo e mamahalin mo ba ang kaaway mo?! pakakainin mo ba pagkatapos rapein?! "pare mahal kita, kahit ni-rape mo asawa ko, kain ko muna, balik ka bukas ha, rapein mo uli asawa ko! alam mo naman pag masaya ka e masaya na rin ako dahil mahal kita!"

pinasok ang bahay mo ng killer at balak kayong patayin lahat e hihintayin mo pa ba ang authority?! duh!!!! "o mga killers, pagbubuksan ko na kayo ng pinto, baka mahirapan pa kayong sipain ang pinto, baka mapilayan pa kayo, alam nyo naman mahal ko kayo, ayaw kong makitang nahihirapan kayo!"

Laughing

1) Mamahalin at patatawarin ang nanrape sa asawa mo basi sa ipinapasagot ni clowns sa inyo What a Face

Tungkol sa usapin gusto mo diyan gawa ka ng thread at makikita mo kung papaano kami sasagot ng deretso basta lang ba sumagot karin kapag may tanong kami, ayaw namin na puro lang kami ang sasagot then ikaw tanong lang ng tanong.

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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by RavlaM on Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:04 am

harballah wrote:

Sa madaling salita ay walang kang gagawin basi sa inilatag na ito ni clowns.




1) Mamahalin at patatawarin ang nanrape sa asawa mo basi sa ipinapasagot ni clowns sa inyo What a Face

Tungkol sa usapin gusto mo diyan gawa ka ng thread at makikita mo kung papaano kami sasagot ng deretso basta lang ba sumagot karin kapag may tanong kami, ayaw namin na puro lang kami ang sasagot then ikaw tanong lang ng tanong.

Paki intindi ang aking sasabihin..utang na loob!

Kapag ginawan ka ng krimen at hinalay at pinatay ang mahal mo sa buhay sa palagay mo ba ay enemy ko ang mga kriminal?

If I will to revenge then they will be my enemies...we have no choice but to forgive....

I know what you are thinking..Sa islam kasi to forgive a criminal is tantamount to letting the criminal go..gusto mo bang pagusapan natin ito...

We don't do that, our forgiveness comes with the responsibility to rehabilitate the criminal in jail so tha he will no longer harm anybody...

Ang ganda di po ba?
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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by the700clowns on Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:28 am

RavlaM wrote:First of all we have the obligation to take care of our body. Our bodies are His property so we are not permitted to destroy it or let others destroy it.


19 Or know ye not that your body is a
temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which ye have from God? and
ye are not your own; 20 for ye were bought with a price: glorify God therefore in your body. (1Co 6:19-20 ASV)

======= We have an obligation to preserve the body and
life of other people. Psalm 82:4 even cites an obligation to protect
those who are in danger:


Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.

===================================If you know danger is coming to others, and you deliberately fail to
warn the others of the danger, you are guilty of harming the victims.

Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees
the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not
warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken
away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's
hand.'
===============================
Exodus 22 2-3




2
If a thief is found dbreaking in and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no bloodguilt for him, 3 but if the sun has risen on him, there shall be bloodguilt for him. He shall surely pay. If he has nothing, then ehe shall be sold for his theft.

Obviously here we see that when a thief breaks into someone’s house at
night and that person defends his home and slays the thief, God does not
hold that death over the defender’s head. However, God does not wish
for anyone to take law into his or her own hands. This is why it is said
that if a thief is struck down during the daylight the defender is
guilty of bloodshed. Now this is speaking of thievery, not an attack. So
if the thief were to attack the defender even during the day,
self-defense would be justified.
=======================================

____

old testament yan, NT na kayo, binago nga ni Jesus diba?! kung dati e kamuhian ang kaaway, ngayon e mahalin na daw ang kaaway, pano mo mamahalin kung lalabanan mo ng patayan?! duh!!! Laughing
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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by RavlaM on Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:29 pm

the700clowns wrote:

____

old testament yan, NT na kayo, binago nga ni Jesus diba?! kung dati e kamuhian ang kaaway, ngayon e mahalin na daw ang kaaway, pano mo mamahalin kung lalabanan mo ng patayan?! duh!!! Laughing

Mukhang nalilito ka na Clown..
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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by BibleBot on Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:55 pm

Rav wag kang magbibigay ng address baka kantihin ang pamilya mo bwekekekekkeke
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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by the700clowns on Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:45 pm

RavlaM wrote:

Mukhang nalilito ka na Clown..

___

ngek! yan lang ang ipanlalaban mo?!
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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by RavlaM on Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:34 pm

the700clowns wrote:

___

ngek! yan lang ang ipanlalaban mo?!

Unang una wala ka na sa topic ng thread mo..
Pangalawa bakit mo naman sinabing pialitan na ng Jesus Christ ang OT.
Pangatlo sa thread na ito ay naghahanap ng practicality...siguro makikita mo yan sa mga pagano..
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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by harballah on Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:04 pm

RavlaM wrote:

Paki intindi ang aking sasabihin..utang na loob!

Kapag ginawan ka ng krimen at hinalay at pinatay ang mahal mo sa buhay sa palagay mo ba ay enemy ko ang mga kriminal?

If I will to revenge then they will be my enemies...we have no choice but to forgive....

I know what you are thinking..Sa islam kasi to forgive a criminal is tantamount to letting the criminal go..gusto mo bang pagusapan natin ito...

We don't do that, our forgiveness comes with the responsibility to rehabilitate the criminal in jail so tha he will no longer harm anybody...

Ang ganda di po ba?

Brad ang eksena kasi ay sa mismong pangyayari kung saan ginahasa at pinapatay ang asawa mo sa harap mo, iyan ang eksena at tinatanong ka kung ano ang aksyon mo, ikaw lang ang hindi maka-intindi o sadyang ayaw mong deretsahan sagutin.

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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by the700clowns on Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:53 pm

Malvar, pagmamahal ba ang paglaban sa kaaway mo na pwede mo syang mapatay?!

"So
if the thief were to attack the defender even during the day,
self-defense would be justified." -Ravlam


love your enemies ba yan?! ka-ipokritahan yan e! papogi points lang yang "love your enemies" na yan! Rolling Eyes


Last edited by the700clowns on Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by RavlaM on Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:39 pm

the700clowns wrote:Malvar, pagmamahal ba ang paglaban sa kaaway mo na pwede mo syang mapatay?!

"So
if the thief were to attack the defender even during the day,
self-defense would be justified." -Ravlam


love your enemies ba yan?! ka-ipokritahan yan e! papogi points lang yang "love your enemies" na yan! Rolling Eyes

Huwag pong chop chopin ang mga napakagandang talata:

Exodus 22 2-3

2
If a thief is found dbreaking in and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no bloodguilt for him, 3 but if the sun has risen on him, there shall be bloodguilt for him. He shall surely pay. If he has nothing, then ehe shall be sold for his theft.

Obviously here we see that when a thief breaks into someone’s house at night and that person defends his home and slays the thief, God does not hold that death over the defender’s head. However, God does not wish for anyone to take law into his or her own hands. This is why it is said that if a thief is struck down during the daylight the defender is guilty of bloodshed. Now this is speaking of thievery, not an attack. So if the thief were to attack the defender even during the day, self-defense would be justified.

Napakaganda di po ba Clown..
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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by the700clowns on Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:47 pm

RavlaM wrote:

Huwag pong chop chopin ang mga napakagandang talata:

Exodus 22 2-3

2
If a thief is found dbreaking in and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no bloodguilt for him, 3 but if the sun has risen on him, there shall be bloodguilt for him. He shall surely pay. If he has nothing, then ehe shall be sold for his theft.

Obviously here we see that when a thief breaks into someone’s house at night and that person defends his home and slays the thief, God does not hold that death over the defender’s head. However, God does not wish for anyone to take law into his or her own hands. This is why it is said that if a thief is struck down during the daylight the defender is guilty of bloodshed. Now this is speaking of thievery, not an attack. So if the thief were to attack the defender even during the day, self-defense would be justified.

Napakaganda di po ba Clown..

___

ganun pa rin ang tanong ko:

pagmamahal ba ang paglaban sa kaaway mo na pwede mo syang mapatay?!

love your enemies ba yan?! ka-ipokritahan yan e! papogi points lang yang "love your enemies" na yan!
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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by RavlaM on Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:51 pm

the700clowns wrote:

___

ganun pa rin ang tanong ko:

pagmamahal ba ang paglaban sa kaaway mo na pwede mo syang mapatay?!

love your enemies ba yan?! ka-ipokritahan yan e! papogi points lang yang "love your enemies" na yan!

Napaka ganda di po ba Clown "Love your enemies". wala akong sinabing madaling maging Cristiyano...ipokrito? mali ka Clown..
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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by harballah on Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:50 pm

Alam mo brad kung alin ang may magandang aral na walang ka-ipokrituhan, nasa Quran po.

Basa:-

42:39. And those who, when an oppressive wrong is inflicted on them, (are not cowed but) help and defend themselves.

42:40. The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree): but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah. for ((Allah)) loveth not those who do wrong.

42:41. But indeed if any do help and defend themselves after a wrong (done) to them, against such there is no cause of blame.

42:42. The blame is only against those who oppress men and wrong-doing and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land, defying right and justice: for such there will be a penalty grievous.

42:43. But indeed if any show patience and forgive, that would truly be an exercise of courageous will and resolution in the conduct of affairs.



Iyan ang tunay na aral kasi nasagot iyong tanong ni clowns sa inyo, walang ka-ipokrituhan kasi kung nakikita mo ng ginagahasa ang misis mo sa harap mo at pinatay ay walang pagkakasala kung ipagtanggol mo ito at iligtas siya kapalit man nito ay mapatay mo ang kaaway mo at kung sakali naman na maagapan mo at mahuli ang gumawa ay makakabuti din daw kung magpatawad ka........pakibasa iyong mga bold and underline about pagpapatawad.

Siguro naman alam mo ang aral na galing sa Diyos kaysa aral na galing sa tinuturing ninyong apostol na si Pablo
What a Face

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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by RavlaM on Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:50 am

harballah wrote:Alam mo brad kung alin ang may magandang aral na walang ka-ipokrituhan, nasa Quran po.

Basa:-

42:39. And those who, when an oppressive wrong is inflicted on them, (are not cowed but) help and defend themselves.

42:40. The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree): but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah. for ((Allah)) loveth not those who do wrong.

42:41. But indeed if any do help and defend themselves after a wrong (done) to them, against such there is no cause of blame.

42:42. The blame is only against those who oppress men and wrong-doing and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land, defying right and justice: for such there will be a penalty grievous.

42:43. But indeed if any show patience and forgive, that would truly be an exercise of courageous will and resolution in the conduct of affairs.



Iyan ang tunay na aral kasi nasagot iyong tanong ni clowns sa inyo, walang ka-ipokrituhan kasi kung nakikita mo ng ginagahasa ang misis mo sa harap mo at pinatay ay walang pagkakasala kung ipagtanggol mo ito at iligtas siya kapalit man nito ay mapatay mo ang kaaway mo at kung sakali naman na maagapan mo at mahuli ang gumawa ay makakabuti din daw kung magpatawad ka........pakibasa iyong mga bold and underline about pagpapatawad.

Siguro naman alam mo ang aral na galing sa Diyos kaysa aral na galing sa tinuturing ninyong apostol na si Pablo
What a Face

Back read po kayo makikita ninyo ang isang napaka gandang talata ng self defense.

Para sa mga taong ang justisya ay paghihiganti hindi nga lalapat ang napakagandang utos ng Panginoon na magpatawad..
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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by harballah on Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:06 am

Nakita mo ba ang turong iyan sa amin, para lang iyan hayop na hinahabol mo na kapag nasukol na ay kakagat na upang iligtas ang sarili niya.

Iyong kasing turong LOVE YOUR ENEMIES ay ka-ipokrituhan din kasi nangyayari na iyan sa panahon natin ngayon na maski sa mga pulitiko lang nauuso ang bangayan at ka-ipokrituhan.

Narito nga iyong pagpapatawad.

42:43. But indeed if any show patience and forgive, that would truly be an exercise of courageous will and resolution in the conduct of affairs.

Hindi mo yata nababasa No

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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

Post by reborn on Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:48 am

mas okey po turo ng islam kumpara po sa kristiyano marami po ipokrito tulad mga born again.
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Re: Love your enemies or fight your enemies? alin ang practical at makatotohanan?

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