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The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

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The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by Hector on Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:04 pm

1. The SDA Sabbath belief
The SDA asserts that the Sabbath is from sundown to sundown. The last two sentences of number 20 of the church's official 28 fundamental beliefs states,
The Sabbath is God's perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God's creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Ex. 20:8-11; Luke 4:16; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Matt. 12:1-12; Ex. 31:13-17; Eze. 20:12, 20; Deut. 5:12-15; Heb. 4:1-11; Lev. 23:32; Mark 1:32.)
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2. The proof that the SDA Sabbath belief is erroneous
People who live in such places as Barrow, Alaska do not experience any sunset at all (and thus no "evening") from November 18th or 19 to January 22nd or 23rd (about 65 days - about 9 weeks). Thus it is impossible for those living there to observe the Sabbath command.
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3. More technical arguments
Seeing that their precious doctrine has just been totally discredited SDA's will desperately try anything to salvage it.
In this section it will be more technical since the meaning words is involved. I have cited several Greek lexicons (and one Hebrew lexicon) that defines for us words like evening, sunset and day. One of the passages cited in #20 of the fundamental beliefs is Mark 1:32. It reads,
At evening (opsios), when the sun had set (dunw), they brought to Him all who were sick and those who were demon-possessed.
1. Danker: the period between late afternoon and darkness, evening (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, opsios, page 746).
2. Kittel: The ancient Hebrew day consisted of day and night, and according to the cultus it offically began in the evening (Ex. 12:18; Lv. 23:32) (TDNT 2:943, heemera - day).
3. Louw/Nida: to move or sink down, especially of the sun sinking below the horizon - 'to sink, to set, to go down.' 'when evening came, after the sun had set' Mk 1.32 (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains, 15.113, dunw, page 197).
4. Louw/Nida: the period after sunset and before darkness - 'evening' 'when evening came, after the sun had set' Mk 1.32 (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains, 67.197, opsia, page 653).
5. New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis: From evening to evening is found once in Lev 23:32 to indicate the time of the observance of the sabbath (NIDOTTE 1:716, 'ereb - evening).
6. Thayer: the setting sun (sinking as it were into the sea) Mk. 1:32; Lk 4:40 (Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, dunw, page 160).

Since the fundamental doctrines are in English let's see how Webster's defines "sunset" and "evening".
1. Sunset - the setting or descent of the sun below the horizon in the evening (Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language, page 1425).
2. Evening - the latter part of the day and early part of the night (Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language, page 494).
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5. Some SDA's may assert that the Sabbath can be observed from 6pm (Friday) to 6pm (Saturday) but Ellen White claims in a "vision" that it must be from evening to evening.
I saw that it is even so: "From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath." Said the angel: "Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is." I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them. I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: "Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet." Said the angel: "If light come, and that light is set aside or rejetced, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject." I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath
commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at "even," and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together (Testimonies For The Church, Volume 1, Page 116).
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6. In Barrow, Alaska it is impossible to obey the Sabbath command proving to us that this command was never meant for anyone besides those of the Old Covenant living in an area entirely unlike that of places like Barrow, Alaska.
Those who say that the Sabbath (seventh day of rest) must be obeyed are at a complete loss to this insurmountable dilemma.

Hector
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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by bench on Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:36 pm

hello to all SDA members.

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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by Frendzie on Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:23 pm

I'll answer this argument in the Old Site.

Can I ask you a question Sir Hector?

Is sabbath validity dependence in Barrow, Alaska time situations?
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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by Hector on Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:21 am

To answer your question, No - and that is because there is no sunset for several weeks of the year thereby proving sabbath observance (evening to evening) is invalidated.

A person cannot observe what does not exist.

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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by freespirit on Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:03 pm

Hector's discourse is a good thing to answer. But the question of Frendzie is more worthy to answer.
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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by Hector on Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:21 pm

I answered with a "no". When I wrote "no" it was in reference to time as in 6pm to 6pm. Ellene White's so-called vision forbids that and insists on a sunset to sunset reckoning - which cannot be observed for quite a few weeks of the year.

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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by freespirit on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:05 am

Frendzie asked... Is sabbath validity dependence in Barrow, Alaska time situations?


If
you answered Fredzie's question with "no"... therefore you should not
criticize Sabbath observation with Barrow's situation. You cannot
validate or invalidate Sabbath depending upon the situation in Alaska.

Ellen White's notion "sunset to sunset" was just came from the Mosaic law...which I'm sure... Barrow already exists on that time of the Exodus. However the notion "sunset to sunset" is only
applicable for a state where sun rises and disappears normally like the
Jewish state... and not to some parts of the world like Barrow. Sabbath
commandment is not dependent upon this "sunset to sunset" ordinance. Anyone can observe the Sabbath even the sun appears or decline irregular.
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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by Hector on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:27 pm

Sure I can critisize Sabbath observation from sunset to sunset in Barrow, Alaska for SDA's hold Ellen White as a prophet and she affirmed it MUST be observed that way.
The sun doesn't appear or decline at all for many weeks there so your assertion holds no merit.

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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by freespirit on Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:59 pm

Of course, if you will use Ellen White notion not in its context by not considering the time and place where the writer delivered her discourse, then you are able to criticize the observance of the Sabbath. AS I've said... Sabbath never depend upon sun' s visibility. Sunset to sunset is only applicable for place where normal occurrences happened.
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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by Hector on Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:05 am

Ellen White gave no qualifications in her "vision". It is therefore incumbent upon you to prove somehow she did - in which you can't.

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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by freespirit on Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:46 am

Ok... I think, sabbath observance become so critical for you because of Ellen White's writings. And I know that you can't crash this biblical belief of mine without Ellen White. But sorry, I'm not one of this prophet's believers. I'm observing the Sabbath because the Bible tells it so. That's too bad for you. If Ellen White insists that Sabbath observance depend upon the visible rise and decline of the sun, then, I think Ellen White did not discovered what I've read from the Scriptures; that Sabbath can observe even without the visibility of the sun. LOLZ.
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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by freespirit on Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:39 am

..........
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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by Hector on Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:21 pm

It's critical for me to defend the truth that the Sabbath is no longer binding and this situation clearly shows that.
A true SDA can not separate Ellen White's visions and the kind of Sabbath observance she speaks of.

I can't help it if you couldn't figure out I was specifically referring to the SDA's even though it was in my very first sentence of my very first post Smile

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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by freespirit on Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:46 pm

I'm not of the Seventh Day Adventist people, but I also believed that Sabbath still binds New Testament people with God. My concern is that you are trying to disqualify the immutability of the Sabbath just because of the situation in Barrow, Alaska.

You must try to reason out from the Scriptures and not because of popular science or because he/she declared such thing. If you want to crash the Sabbath doctrine, you must present your propositions from the Scriptures which is the basis of every doctrine and reproofs, the foundation and destroyer of every doctrine contrary to the truth. THE MERE FACT THAT you shatters Sabbath only before the SDAs is because you can't defend your views against Sabbath believing people outside of the Adventist Church.
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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by Hector on Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:26 am

I have no problem showing how the Sabbath does not apply for Christians today using other arguments. My focus in this thread was for the SDA's. The fact that you went on and on when I even mentioned this in the very first sentence of my first post is inexcusable.
Rest assured I intend to begin another thread soon (Lord willing) that cites Scripture and how the words involved are properly defined that also "shatters the Sabbath myth".

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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by freespirit on Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:02 pm

The title of the tread is... The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth
This is a general statement against the sabbath which you have called "myth". If that would be the "hammer" that shatter Sabbath... then, prove this before me.

I think, you should change the title and call it... The hammer that shatters SDA's doctrine.
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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by Hector on Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:16 am

Differnt hammers are needed to shatter the different myths asscoiated with those who insist that the Sabbath is binding.

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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by Frendzie on Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:12 pm

Hector wrote:To answer your question, No - and that is because there is no sunset for several weeks of the year thereby proving sabbath observance (evening to evening) is invalidated.

A person cannot observe what does not exist.

The discussion is over.

You prove your inconsistency. This thread did not shatters the Sabbath.
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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by Hector on Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:29 pm

The only thing it can't shatter is the mental block that some can't overcome Smile

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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

Post by Goodman on Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:28 pm

Is the 4th commandment of God a myth?

Just because there is no regular sun in Alaska, God's Sabbath command is already a myth?
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Re: The hammer that shatters the Sabbath myth

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