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Baptism really saves us

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Baptism really saves us

Post by adanedhel on Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:55 am

Guys I hope you can help me in this: Are my answers to the questions correct?



Baptism really saves us. There's no doubt in it. Here is one
proof from the Bible:

"...who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah
while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were
saved through water, and this water symbolizes BAPTISM THAT NOW SAVES YOU
also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience
toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ..." (1 Pet.
3:20-21)











Water Baptism Saves us from what?





Ans: Water baptism
saves us from sin.





Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole
Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),
and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we
are freed from sin
and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ,
are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism
is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word." (CCC 1213)





By Baptism all sins are forgiven,
original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin.
In
those who have been reborn nothing remains that would impede their entry into
the Kingdom of God, neither Adam's sin, nor personal sin, nor the consequences
of sin, the gravest of which is separation from God. (CCC 1263)











Because this is talking about water
baptism an anti-type during Noah and the great flood. How did Noah got his
"good conscience toward God"?






Ans.





1. I think it is a
separate topic to discuss of how did Noah got his “good conscience toward
God”. We are first hand concerned about
baptism and its antitypes in the OT. For
example: the hovering of the Spirit on
the water and land emerged from water in the first creation (Gen. 1:1-2), the crossing of Israelites in Red Sea (Ex. 14)…they all portray the typologies of
baptism.





2. Look at the way
the verse was constructed. The phrase
“good conscience towards God” is near to the words “baptism” and “you”, and not
to “Noah”. Therefore the phrase applies
and is meant to those words near to it and not the word that is far from it.














Do you consider water baptism as a
WORK of righteousness?






Ans. Baptism is a
work of grace and not a work of righteousness.
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by element_115x on Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:56 pm

I thought it was the Ark that saved Noah and his family? The water actually drowned the unbelievers, if i remember correctly.

Namaste. Smile
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by Matrix on Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:00 am

write your definition of 'baptism' first, or how you understand it before making conclusions.
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by adanedhel on Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:59 am

Of course I refer to the Catholic Baptism. If others reply it with their own definition in their head that's no longer my problem.
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by Esther on Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:07 am

element_115x wrote:I thought it was the Ark that saved Noah and his family? The water actually drowned the unbelievers, if i remember correctly.

Namaste.

there is Papal bull on this Ark by Boniface, Bishop, Servant of the servants of God.

Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to hold that there is One Holy Catholic and truly Apostolic Church. And this we firmly believe and simply confess: outside of Her, there is neither salvation, nor the remission of sins, just as the Bridegroom in the Canticles proclaims: "One is my dove, my perfect one. One is her mother; elect is she who bore her." [Canticles 6]. And this represents the one mystical body, whose head is Christ, and truly God [is the head] of Christ. [1 Corinthians 11:3] In Her, there is one Lord, one faith, one baptism. [Ephesians 4] For certainly, in the time of the Flood, the ark of Noah was one, prefiguring the one Church. And She, having been completed by [the measure of] one cubit, [Genesis 6] had one pilot and helmsman, that is, Noah. And outside of Her, everything standing upon the land, as we read, had been destroyed.


element5x there is enough room for everyone of us in the ark

you can't swim in the flood forever.

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Maria Clara blog a blog for gentle people : click ::::::>>> here

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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by ramcam2 on Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:38 pm

adanedhel wrote:Guys I hope you can help me in this: Are my answers to the questions correct?



Baptism really saves us. There's no doubt in it. Here is one
proof from the Bible:

"...who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah
while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were
saved through water, and this water symbolizes BAPTISM THAT NOW SAVES YOU
also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience
toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ..." (1 Pet.
3:20-21)











Water Baptism Saves us from what?





Ans: Water baptism
saves us from sin.





Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole
Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),
and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we
are freed from sin
and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ,
are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism
is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word." (CCC 1213)





By Baptism all sins are forgiven,
original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin.
In
those who have been reborn nothing remains that would impede their entry into
the Kingdom of God, neither Adam's sin, nor personal sin, nor the consequences
of sin, the gravest of which is separation from God. (CCC 1263)











Because this is talking about water
baptism an anti-type during Noah and the great flood. How did Noah got his
"good conscience toward God"?






Ans.





1. I think it is a
separate topic to discuss of how did Noah got his “good conscience toward
God”. We are first hand concerned about
baptism and its antitypes in the OT. For
example: the hovering of the Spirit on
the water and land emerged from water in the first creation (Gen. 1:1-2), the crossing of Israelites in Red Sea (Ex. 14)…they all portray the typologies of
baptism.





2. Look at the way
the verse was constructed. The phrase
“good conscience towards God” is near to the words “baptism” and “you”, and not
to “Noah”. Therefore the phrase applies
and is meant to those words near to it and not the word that is far from it.














Do you consider water baptism as a
WORK of righteousness?






Ans. Baptism is a
work of grace and not a work of righteousness.


When one says 'water baptism', hopefully it should not be meant to be identical with the baptism by John the Baptist. 'Water baptism' in its Christian sense means baptism with water and the Holy Spirit.
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by element_115x on Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:01 pm

Esther wrote:

there is Papal bull on this Ark by Boniface, Bishop, Servant of the servants of God.

Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to hold that there is One Holy Catholic and truly Apostolic Church. And this we firmly believe and simply confess: outside of Her, there is neither salvation, nor the remission of sins, just as the Bridegroom in the Canticles proclaims: "One is my dove, my perfect one. One is her mother; elect is she who bore her." [Canticles 6]. And this represents the one mystical body, whose head is Christ, and truly God [is the head] of Christ. [1 Corinthians 11:3] In Her, there is one Lord, one faith, one baptism. [Ephesians 4] For certainly, in the time of the Flood, the ark of Noah was one, prefiguring the one Church. And She, having been completed by [the measure of] one cubit, [Genesis 6] had one pilot and helmsman, that is, Noah. And outside of Her, everything standing upon the land, as we read, had been destroyed.

element5x there is enough room for everyone of us in the ark

you can't swim in the flood forever.

Hmmm.... but in the Flood Story, the water did not save the sinners -- it killed them. Noah and his family however were saved by the Ark. So if the Ark represented the Church, then that would mean people should avoid the 'water', since it signified the wrath of God, right? Razz

I think @ramcam has a point. The Deluge symbolisms and John's water baptism are two different things. Smile
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by Esther on Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:36 pm

element_115x wrote:

Hmmm.... but in the Flood Story, the water did not save the sinners -- it killed them. Noah and his family however were saved by the Ark. So if the Ark represented the Church, then that would mean people should avoid the 'water', since it signified the wrath of God, right?

I think @ramcam has a point. The Deluge symbolisms and John's water baptism are two different things.

...need nothing to fear now both water (w/c is for baptism ) and the flood coz' it say it will not be repeated. but beware ...Fire is the next element to be feared...

as water is for baptism and fllood turns to:

Come, bathe you in the healing flood,
All ye who mourn, by sin opprest;
Your only hope is Jesus’ Blood,
His Sacred Heart your only rest.

_________________
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Maria Clara blog a blog for gentle people : click ::::::>>> here

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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by ramcam2 on Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:54 pm

[quote="element_115x"]

Hmmm.... but in the Flood Story, the water did not save the sinners -- it killed them. Noah and his family however were saved by the Ark. So if the Ark represented the Church, then that would mean people should avoid the 'water', since it signified the wrath of God, right?

I think @ramcam has a point. The Deluge symbolisms and John's water baptism are two different things.


The water saved Noah and family in the ark from corrupted humanity. The ark symbolizes the Church. This means that in order to be saved, one has to be baptized in the Church.

Cyprian of Carthage:
"Peter himself, showing and vindicating the unity, has commanded and warned us that we cannot be saved except by the one only baptism of the one Church. He says, ‘In the ark of Noah a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water. Similarly, baptism will in like manner save you" [1 Peter 3:20-21]. In how short and spiritual a summary has he set forth the sacrament of unity! In that baptism of the world in which its ancient wickedness was washed away, he who was not in the ark of Noah could not be saved by water. Likewise, neither can he be saved by baptism who has not been baptized in the Church which is established in the unity of the Lord according to the sacrament of the one ark" (ibid., 73[71]:11).

The Deluge and John's baptism both pre-figured the Sacrament of Baptism.
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by PusoNiMaria123 on Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:36 pm

The Holy Baptism is one of the ways to enter God's kingdom.

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!" Joh. 3:5 (American Standard Version)
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by enghelee10 on Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:02 pm

i agree!! sino bang nagsabing Hindi ?? ^_^
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by PusoNiMaria123 on Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:22 pm

Maraming agree pero iba iba ang view sa Bautismo. Tulad nalang ng mga Born Again, INC, pati Dating Daan. Para sa kanila matanda Binabautismuhan hindi infant. At saka lubog ang Bautismo sa kanila hindi buhos.
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by BibleBot on Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:42 pm

bakit yung magnanakaw na kasama ni kristo sa krus hindi naman yun nabautismuhan sa tubig pero naligtas?
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by miss_terry on Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:21 pm

edi mga katoliks lang pala ang maliligatas? parang unfair naman yun.
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by adanedhel on Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:18 am

BibleBot wrote:bakit yung magnanakaw na kasama ni kristo sa krus hindi naman yun nabautismuhan sa tubig pero naligtas?

Hindi naman tayo masi-save by BAPTISM ALONE. Pakibasa ng posisyon ng Katoliko sa katesismo, wala kang mababasang sa binyag lang tayo maliligtas.
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by ramcam2 on Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:24 pm

BibleBot wrote:bakit yung magnanakaw na kasama ni kristo sa krus hindi naman yun nabautismuhan sa tubig pero naligtas?

This falls under baptism of desire. The thief clearly underwent a conversion at some point during his crucifixion, and it seems evident that he would have desired baptism before his death had he known of its necessity.


The Fathers and theologians frequently divide baptism into three kinds: the baptism of water (aquæ or fluminis), the baptism of desire (flaminis), and the baptism of blood (sanguinis). However, only the first is a real sacrament. The latter two are denominated baptism only analogically, inasmuch as they supply the principal effect of baptism, namely, the grace which remits sins. It is the teaching of the CatholicChurch that when the baptism of water becomes a physical or moral impossibility, eternallife may be obtained by the baptism of desire or the baptism of blood. (Cathen)

for more reading..... http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm#III
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by BibleBot on Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:26 pm

ramcam2 wrote:

This falls under baptism of desire. The thief clearly underwent a conversion at some point during his crucifixion, and it seems evident that he would have desired baptism before his death had he known of its necessity.


The Fathers and theologians frequently divide baptism into three kinds: the baptism of water (aquæ or fluminis), the baptism of desire (flaminis), and the baptism of blood (sanguinis). However, only the first is a real sacrament. The latter two are denominated baptism only analogically, inasmuch as they supply the principal effect of baptism, namely, the grace which remits sins. It is the teaching of the CatholicChurch that when the baptism of water becomes a physical or moral impossibility, eternallife may be obtained by the baptism of desire or the baptism of blood. (Cathen)

for more reading..... http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm#III

maliwanag hindi bautismo sa tubig ang ginawa sa magnanakaw
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by ramcam2 on Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:10 pm

BibleBot wrote:

maliwanag hindi bautismo sa tubig ang ginawa sa magnanakaw


Yes, it was not the sacrament of baptism but it was sufficient, because the Church recognizes that, in such a case, the desire for baptism brings about the fruits of this sacrament.

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament. (from the Catechism)
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by Ash Ketchum on Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:05 pm

miss_terry wrote:edi mga katoliks lang pala ang maliligatas? parang unfair naman yun.

Ang iglesyang tinayo lamang ni Cristo ang maliligtas. Eh ayon sa Mateo 16:18 ilan ang ginawang Iglesya? Ito o ako na mag-quote para sa inyo.

Mateo 16 (Magandang Balita Biblia)

[18] At sinasabi ko naman sayo, ikaw ay Pedro, at sa ibabaw ng batong ito ay itatayo ko ang aking iglesya, at hindi makapananaig sa kanya kahit ang kapangyarihan ng kamatayan.


Ano ba daw sabi? Ang aking iglesya ang sabi ng Panginoong Jesu-Cristo diba? Hindi "ang aking mga iglesya"?!?
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by miss_terry on Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:56 pm

So kailangan kong umanib sa inyo upang ako'y maligtas?
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by BibleBot on Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:50 pm

adanedhel wrote:

Hindi naman tayo masi-save by BAPTISM ALONE. Pakibasa ng posisyon ng Katoliko sa katesismo, wala kang mababasang sa binyag lang tayo maliligtas.

tama ka dyan ibig lang sabihin na hindi ang bautismo sa tubig ang magliligtas sayo kundi dapat kang ma born again para ka maligtas
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by ramcam2 on Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:50 am

BibleBot wrote:

tama ka dyan ibig lang sabihin na hindi ang bautismo sa tubig ang magliligtas sayo kundi dapat kang ma born again para ka maligtas


We are born again in the Sacrament of Baptism (water/Spirit) and receive new life, a fact that is supported in Scripture.

John3: 5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to you, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Rom6: 3 Know you not that all we who are baptized in Christ Jesus are baptized in his death? 4 For we are buried together with him by baptism into death: that, as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life.

Col2: 12 Buried with him in baptism: in whom also you are risen again by the faith of the operation of God who has raised him up from the dead. 13 And you, when you were dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he has quickened together with him, forgiving you all offences:

Tit3: 5 Not by the works of justice which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration and renovation of the Holy Ghost.
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by Comb@tron on Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:07 pm

^^ helow? naiintindihan mu ba yang john 3:5?

john 3:6
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit.

sabi FLESH gives birth to FLESH

SPIRIT gives birth to SPIRIT

Ang tanong ang makakapag born again ba sa SPIRIT ay ang PAGBAUTISMO?


1Peter 1:22-23
22Now that you have
purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love
for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.[b] 23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
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Re: Baptism really saves us

Post by ramcam2 on Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:13 pm

Comb@tron wrote:^^ helow? naiintindihan mu ba yang john 3:5?

john 3:6
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit.

sabi FLESH gives birth to FLESH

SPIRIT gives birth to SPIRIT

Ang tanong ang makakapag born again ba sa SPIRIT ay ang PAGBAUTISMO?


1Peter 1:22-23
22Now that you have
purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love
for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.[b] 23For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

Yes, the Sacrament of Baptism makes us a new creature.

From the Catechism:

VII. The Grace of Baptism

1262 The different effects of Baptism are signified by the perceptible elements of the sacramental rite. Immersion in water symbolizes not only death and purification, but also regeneration and renewal. Thus the two principal effects are purification from sins and new birth in the Holy Spirit.64

"A new creature"


1265 Baptism not only purifies from all sins, but also makes the neophyte "a new creature," an adopted son of God, who has become a "partaker of the divine nature,"68 member of Christ and coheir with him,69 and a temple of the Holy Spirit.70


1266 The Most Holy Trinity gives the baptized sanctifying grace, the grace of justification:
- enabling them to believe in God, to hope in him, and to love him through the theological virtues;
- giving them the power to live and act under the prompting of the Holy Spirit through the gifts of the Holy Spirit;
- allowing them to grow in goodness through the moral virtues.
Thus the whole organism of the Christian's supernatural life has its roots in Baptism.
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